VAIL SUCKS

[jimmywilson69]

Good article talking about Stowe problems

Vail stock falls: Capacity, staffing problems at Stowe

On the night before Christmas, not a snow gun was stirring at Stowe Mountain Resort.

www.vtcng.com

 

[machski]

Well....there are a few snowmakers I've seen out here who are from South America/Australia/New Zealand and do it year round by working in the northern hemisphere during our winter and in the southern hemisphere during our summer. So that could be some of this crew (I believe the ones I have seen worked for Deer Valley or one of the resort chains). But you are right that a good portion of them move trades in the warmer months.

^^^^^^This and consider too Vail owns the 3 largest resorts in Australia.

 

[eatskisleep]

It's funny, my greatest fear when Vail took over Wildcat was they'd neuter the place with snowmaking on places I don't want to see it like Upper Wildcat, Cougar etc and groom the hell out of the place. I thought Peak had the right mix of snowmaking and grooming vs natural terrain at Cat.

Lol I thought the same thing! And here we are…

I assume they get worse and worse and try to become as terrible/profitable as comcast. Notice how much better the product is at the privately owned resorts, they don't focus on the quarterly profits BS like Vail does.

Yep! Look at Mountains like JH or even better, non-Ikon, non-epic pass areas. At least Ikon seems to be doing it right.

I listened to the podcast. There were a few good questions about NH ski areas being a shitshow but Katz dodged everything.

The worst was that he was asked point blank why Pat’s Peak is crushing Crotched from an operational standpoint. He went on about not knowing about every single ski area. Fuck him, he’s a destructive force in the ski industry.

If you don’t know the product you are selling you shouldn’t be the one selling it. In this case, if you don’t know about every ski area, get out! Glad he did.

 

[machski]

The biggest take away from the Katz SSPC episode was that Stuart asked him if their Midwest and Eastern ski areas would go back to their previous openings and operations. Katz said point blank, they will open smartly. If they have to blow a ton of snow only to watch it melt and wash away prior to the Christmas holiday, they probably won't push the season that way to be "environmentally responsible.". Nice, how about financially conservative to increase profits by reducing costs, but ok screw your loyal skier's out of the long season they love.

 

[deadheadskier]

The biggest take away from the Katz SSPC episode was that Stuart asked him if their Midwest and Eastern ski areas would go back to their previous openings and operations. Katz said point blank, they will open smartly. If they have to blow a ton of snow only to watch it melt and wash away prior to the Christmas holiday, they probably won't push the season that way to be "environmentally responsible.". Nice, how about financially conservative to increase profits by reducing costs, but ok screw your loyal skier's out of the long season they love.

He and Vail leadership are just so incredibly clueless about the fickleness of New England weather and skier expectations. You have to go for it starting basically 12/1. You want to be conservative in November, ok. That's reasonable. But come December it's full blast. Some winters you win, some you lose. At some point you have to throw data and spreadsheets to the wind. The ones that do like Boyne areas, Killington, Stratton etc, or even small areas like Pats, Gunstock and Shawnee; all do well over time to build loyalty.

It seems like Vail's only strategy to build loyalty is cheap passes.

 

[cdskier]

He and Vail leadership are just so incredibly clueless about the fickleness of New England weather and skier expectations.

And the ultimate irony is that Katz himself grew up skiing at Hunter...which was historically an extremely aggressive snow-making powerhouse.

 

[Vince]

Mt Snow Thurs Jan 13
Stowe Weds Jan 19
Stowe Thurs Jan 20
Sunapee Mon Jan 24
Okemo Tues Jan 25

A few observations
1) The weekday crowds are much less this year than last year at this time.
2) All seemed to be well staffed
3) All except Okemo were making a lot of snow the days I was there.
4) The cheap bastards are at least trying to play catch up. If it snows a foot on Saturday they should all be 100 percent open.
5) The lack of grooming becomes a plus once we get snow

I only ski weekdays so my hatred does not run quite as deep as most. They have done a good job at Sunapee. All main trails are now open. Stowe was real good and the only real legit expert skiing I have done this year. The front four and the trees were open. Mt Snow was a groomer day before it storm, but they did open the Grand Summit Express in addition to the Blue Bird when they didn't have to. Okemo only has one trail at Jackson Gore and two on the South Side so they have come up very short in terrain expansion.

In the end Vail is gonna blame all the short comings on Covid and promise to do better next year. We're gonna plug our noses and buy another Epic pass

 

[abc]

We're gonna plug our noses and buy another Epic pass

"We"? Who do you think "we" are?

Some of us won't buy another Epic pass next year!

That's what "we" do!

 

[thetrailboss]

I listened to the podcast. There were a few good questions about NH ski areas being a shitshow but Katz dodged everything.

The worst was that he was asked point blank why Pat’s Peak is crushing Crotched from an operational standpoint. He went on about not knowing about every single ski area. Fuck him, he’s a destructive force in the ski industry.

Pats Peak has very committed local ownership and management. Both are very experienced and also very resourceful. And it also helps to have a relatively small mountain to operate. That said, they have invested a lot of money and energy into the place and it shows.

 

[deadheadskier]

Mt Snow Thurs Jan 13
Stowe Weds Jan 19
Stowe Thurs Jan 20
Sunapee Mon Jan 24
Okemo Tues Jan 25

A few observations
1) The weekday crowds are much less this year than last year at this time.
2) All seemed to be well staffed
3) All except Okemo were making a lot of snow the days I was there.
4) The cheap bastards are at least trying to play catch up. If it snows a foot on Saturday they should all be 100 percent open.
5) The lack of grooming becomes a plus once we get snow

I only ski weekdays so my hatred does not run quite as deep as most. They have done a good job at Sunapee. All main trails are now open. Stowe was real good and the only real legit expert skiing I have done this year. The front four and the trees were open. Mt Snow was a groomer day before it storm, but they did open the Grand Summit Express in addition to the Blue Bird when they didn't have to. Okemo only has one trail at Jackson Gore and two on the South Side so they have come up very short in terrain expansion.

In the end Vail is gonna blame all the short comings on Covid and promise to do better next year. We're gonna plug our noses and buy another Epic pass

That's a respectable take.

Where do you live Vince and what would be the alternatives to consider for your situation?

 

[deadheadskier]

Pats Peak has very committed local ownership and management. Both are very experienced and also very resourceful. And it also helps to have a relatively small mountain to operate. That said, they have invested a lot of money and energy into the place and it shows.

Exactly and correct me if I'm wrong, but your praise is probably dated a decade In terms of on property experience at Pats since moving to Utah

Have you been there since the well done base lodge expansion? You probably haven't skied Cascade Basin either. They nailed both those projects and kept the same quality service through growth. That's all we want out of businesses right?

 

[kendo]

Vail discounting next year's pass $150 for Steven's Pass. "We sucked this year. We got your money. Our only option is to take your money again for next year."

Vail Resorts offers discounts at Stevens Pass, calling challenges ‘unique’ compared to 36 other resorts

In an acknowledgment that a season pass just isn’t getting customers what it used to, Vail Resorts has discounted next season’s Stevens Pass ski pass to $385 for customers who purchased one this season.

www.vaildaily.com

 

[kendo]

Fine print... response from the GM Tom on FB:









... something for NH locals to look forward too?

 

[Edd]

Fine print... response from the GM Tom on FB:

View attachment 52857

View attachment 52858

View attachment 52861



... something for NH locals to look forward too?

I can only hope. My wife was saying yesterday that she’d like to ski Whistler next year; she’s never been.

 

[jimmywilson69]

I saw this.

What about the other resorts where operations are largely running as normal, but because they've sold so many damn passes they are crowded? I can't complain about operations at my local hill other than its MLK weekend crowded every weekend. The "experience of a lifetime" is not spending your lifetime in a lift line.

I recognize that's never going to happen...

The more I think about this nearly all of their issues could be solved by addressing 3 items.

1. Raise the pass prices. Any Die off from people too cheap can easily be offset with the increased cost. I'm sure the Bean Counters in Broomfield could handle this forecasting. Not to mention the folks who buy a pass to use for 1 week a year at the flagship resorts are still going to do so.
2. Pay more and start hiring earlier. It seems like these are the 2 main issues with their staffing issues. Pay might not be just hourly rate, look at adding other fringe benefits that actually matter.
3. Understand your local markets. The majority of their profile is not a flagship resort in the major ski markets (CA, CO, UT). This is probably the one thing they can "afford" to do. You bought a bunch of feeder hills and day trip destinations. Look back at previous operations and see what worked and made these areas successful. You can keep the local feel and still operate within the general corporate structure.

I honestly don't think its much more complex than this. Get these 3 things in line and other challenges will be infinitely easier to deal with.

 

[machski]

I can only hope. My wife was saying yesterday that she’d like to ski Whistler next year; she’s never been.

So, given the limits on what the discount applies to at Stevens, for East skier's if they did this it won't apply to Epic or Epic Local passes. And you could only use you $150 resort credit at eastern areas, not Whistler. So this would not help your trip there.

All this said, I do not believe there is a NH specific pass and certainly not an AttiCat or Crotched only products. Given VT has run much better and is accessible on the Northeast pass, I cannot see Vail tossing any discounts out here. If you are firmly entrenched at Crotched or AttiCat, that should probably piss you off. But they won't care. Stevens is unique, as anything else on the Epic is quite a hike, the closest probably being Whistler. But that isn't a simple drive and back with Covid restrictions in place. So Vail has to do something there, not sure this will cut it. Have a feeling they are going to lose a ton of Stevens folks, and I doubt they get many traveling there on the Epic from other regions given lack of lodging, etc.

 

[Maple Covered Booger]

The biggest take away from the Katz SSPC episode was that Stuart asked him if their Midwest and Eastern ski areas would go back to their previous openings and operations. Katz said point blank, they will open smartly. If they have to blow a ton of snow only to watch it melt and wash away prior to the Christmas holiday, they probably won't push the season that way to be "environmentally responsible.". Nice, how about financially conservative to increase profits by reducing costs, but ok screw your loyal skier's out of the long season they love.

This was my takeaway as possible. He basically said that if your ski area is not open, you have the option to visit one their other resorts. There is a big difference between a 75 minute drive for a day trip to Southern PA vs 7-12 hour drive that would require an overnight to ski in NY, VT, or NH.

 

[danimals]

Found this on Reddit. Take with a grain of salt but it’s entertaining to read. A gilson snowboard is the equivalent to using ski blades.

“6 snowmaker from wildcat and attitash earlier this season told the resort that they had all been offered 2 dollars more per hour to work at Shawnee peak. Vail wouldn’t match the offer so all 6 now work at Shawnee peak. Vail pays the least of anybody in the valley. Sunday River just 45 minutes away pays 16 starting wage for snowmaker. It’s 12 at attitash/wildcat

Also the guy running the wildcat snowmakers (the 1 or 2 still left) is a pathological liar. His names Tony, but everyone calls him Tony Tony, because he’s such a good storyteller he could win a Tony award. He tells anyone who will listen that he used to be a pro snowboarder, got 4th in 04’ X games, was tight with Shaun white, and tells very elaborate and detailed stories about him and Shaun. Says he used to be sponsored by burton, and is currently riding for Gilson. Not only is none of it remotely true, he’s not even a good snowboarder. He could pass off as having just learned. Anyways, that’s who runs all snowmaking and grooming at wildcat, a well known pathological liar. It’s a really shitty place to work, terrible culture. I left last season to work at black mountain down the street, much much better people.”

 

[jaytrem]

So in theory every Epic Pass (the top one I mean) and Epic Local Pass should come with a $150 credit for use at Stevens Pass. Doubt I'll get there next year. Was there last year and possibly later this year. Went on a late March Monday and all necessary lifts were running except for Jupiter due to winds. That did open when Southern Cross broke down, but kept stopping due to the wind.

 

[jaytrem]

A gilson snowboard is the equivalent to using ski blades.

They make a Gritty snowboard, how bad can they be!!!

Gilson Gritty Snowboard

For Flyers Fans - #FlyOrDie

gilsonsnow.com