I be much more worried about getting seriously injured/killed in a car accident coming to or from the mountain than the same happening on a lift no matter how old it is.
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VAIL SUCKS
- Thread starter thebigo
- Start date
machski
Well-known member
Funny, most of not all the Eastern States have tramway boards. Out West, not as much. On top of that are the insurance carriers. And with some of the issues/failures seen over the past decade or so, have to assume it may be insurance driving standards up.
FBGM
Well-known member
Yeah it’s all 3 back east. I didn’t oversee lifts on the west so unsure. We get state/tram board whatever you want to call it, ANSI code from them and insurance which sometimes is just as strict.
Amazing how Vermont had a great year, Colorado had a record year, but NH Ski Areas were DOWN 3% year-over-year.
www.saminfo.com
SkiNH blames weather. I wonder how much of Vail's mismanagement played a role. I've seen numerous complaints about Wildcat, Attitash, and Crotched. If they were running normally I'd say that there might not be a loss of skier days.
Mild Weather, Late Openings Dampen New Hampshire Ski Area Visits - Ski Area Management
SAM Magazine—Conway, N.H., June 13, 2022—Visits to New Hampshire ski areas during the 2021-22 winter season for alpine, cross-country, and tubing overall totaled 2,220,102, down 3 percent compared to the 2,295,424 visits in 2020-21. Courtesy of Dave Gibson The overall decline is almost entirely...
SkiNH blames weather. I wonder how much of Vail's mismanagement played a role. I've seen numerous complaints about Wildcat, Attitash, and Crotched. If they were running normally I'd say that there might not be a loss of skier days.
oh yes, and don't forget all of the COVID excuses.Amazing how Vermont had a great year, Colorado had a record year, but NH Ski Areas were DOWN 3% year-over-year.
Mild Weather, Late Openings Dampen New Hampshire Ski Area Visits - Ski Area Management
SAM Magazine—Conway, N.H., June 13, 2022—Visits to New Hampshire ski areas during the 2021-22 winter season for alpine, cross-country, and tubing overall totaled 2,220,102, down 3 percent compared to the 2,295,424 visits in 2020-21. Courtesy of Dave Gibson The overall decline is almost entirely...
SkiNH blames weather. I wonder how much of Vail's mismanagement played a role. I've seen numerous complaints about Wildcat, Attitash, and Crotched. If they were running normally I'd say that there might not be a loss of skier days.
Edd
Well-known member
I’d bet $ on this. Those 3 together are enough to move the needle by 3%.Amazing how Vermont had a great year, Colorado had a record year, but NH Ski Areas were DOWN 3% year-over-year.
Mild Weather, Late Openings Dampen New Hampshire Ski Area Visits - Ski Area Management
SAM Magazine—Conway, N.H., June 13, 2022—Visits to New Hampshire ski areas during the 2021-22 winter season for alpine, cross-country, and tubing overall totaled 2,220,102, down 3 percent compared to the 2,295,424 visits in 2020-21. Courtesy of Dave Gibson The overall decline is almost entirely...
SkiNH blames weather. I wonder how much of Vail's mismanagement played a role. I've seen numerous complaints about Wildcat, Attitash, and Crotched. If they were running normally I'd say that there might not be a loss of skier days.
Not sure about this.
thebigo
Well-known member
VT had quarantine requirements for out of state residents through nearly the end of the 21 ski season. NH never closed to new england residents. My VT days increased twenty fold this year over the previous year due to the quarantine, I get that it wasnt enforced but I just did not want to deal with it. I suspect many metro boston vacations were switched to NH during the 20/21 season, switched back to vt for the 21/22 season. Maine numbers would be interesting, I believe they closed to MA residents but not NH.
Congratulations, You are the only person who actually obeyed the VT rule. Ha Ha
MWV #'s were way down this past year, mostly due to folks avoiding AT and WC.
It's the local businesses that really got hurt. Restaurants, hotels, ski shops that tend to all the racers. All had a shitty year.
BW, Black, Shawnee, & King Pine were all up in #'s
That surprises me about Black. Didn't they miss the entirety of Christmas week?
Zand
Well-known member
700 people is still more than 500 people I suppose.
machski
Well-known member
Well, of course they take the weather blame. Don't want to piss off the new owner of 4 areas in the State (even though Vail seems to steer clear of local/state ski associations and do their own thing). I can tell you my NH ski days would have been much higher had Crotched operated on a full schedule. No doubt Vail's misses caused this.Amazing how Vermont had a great year, Colorado had a record year, but NH Ski Areas were DOWN 3% year-over-year.
Mild Weather, Late Openings Dampen New Hampshire Ski Area Visits - Ski Area Management
SAM Magazine—Conway, N.H., June 13, 2022—Visits to New Hampshire ski areas during the 2021-22 winter season for alpine, cross-country, and tubing overall totaled 2,220,102, down 3 percent compared to the 2,295,424 visits in 2020-21. Courtesy of Dave Gibson The overall decline is almost entirely...
SkiNH blames weather. I wonder how much of Vail's mismanagement played a role. I've seen numerous complaints about Wildcat, Attitash, and Crotched. If they were running normally I'd say that there might not be a loss of skier days.
drjeff
Well-known member
While certainly Vail's operational choices at their NH resorts DID play a role in their skiers visits in that state, there is some truth to the weather component if one remembers though. It's not like Wildcat's anemic trail counts the vast majority of the season were all attributable to lack of snowmaking, had mother nature delivered a "normal" Winter of snow fall, those trail counts would of been higher for more of the season for sure. And once late February came around, and some storms started, it sure seamed like the cut off line between all snow and the mix/rain side of the storm generally had Crotched as well as Sunapee atleast on the less desirable side of things.
Definitely not an excuse for how they chose to operate their NH areas, and the myriad of reasons that played into how they were operated. Just have to also be realistic and add in that across Southern and even some of Central NH, this wasn't the greatest of Winters for snowfall, early snowmaking windows, and then snow retention later on
Definitely not an excuse for how they chose to operate their NH areas, and the myriad of reasons that played into how they were operated. Just have to also be realistic and add in that across Southern and even some of Central NH, this wasn't the greatest of Winters for snowfall, early snowmaking windows, and then snow retention later on
Bullshit
Cannon, Pats, Gunstock and I'm sure many others met or exceeded prior season's snowmaking output.
drjeff needs to take off his rosy vail tinted sun-glasses and stop drinking the "Vail isn't really that bad" kool-aid.
Sure weather can be an issue that impacts skier visits, but most of the properly run resorts in the northeast seem to have been able to overcome this and didn't let it hurt their skier visit totals.
Sure weather can be an issue that impacts skier visits, but most of the properly run resorts in the northeast seem to have been able to overcome this and didn't let it hurt their skier visit totals.
drjeff
Well-known member
Care to read the full bit that I posted DHS? Or are you just reading the 1st line or 2?
100% stated that Vail's operational decisions affected their NH properties. No questions at all about that.
Mother nature though didn't exactly help with a slow, warm start, then a bunch of storms later on that especially for Crotched and Sunapee late season had them on the warm side of things.
Also, when I was at Attitash and Wildcat in early March, a time of year when pretty much every trail, regardless of whether or not it has snowmaking pipe on it, should of been open due to a"normal" season of accumulated snowfall, they weren't. That part has abslutely nothing to do with Vail operational choices that they made for their NH properties in particular. That's all mother nature.
Vail, for various reasons, certainly didn't operate their NH resorts as they could, or as they had been under previous owners. No doubt about that and it's all on them. Mother Nature, whom does factor into the skiing and riding for New England for sure, had a below average season for much of Central New Enlgand and about all of Southern New England last season.
Northen New Enlgand eventually got into the snow positive side of storms late Feb/Early March and finished up decent late season. Southern New England didn't fair as well. Vail's operational choices with far below average snowmaking efforts in NH, definitely made things worse. That part is all on them, and if one tries to OBJECTIVELY look at things, and take the emotions out of it, I am sure that they will see that what I said isn't all Vail cheerleading
Newpylong
Well-known member
We were skiing 100% snowmaking terrain at Ragged by the third week in January. Similar snowmaking capacity as Wildcat, but huge geographical disadvantage.
Biggest difference? Long term management (that knows their ass from their elbow) in place and proper staffing levels.
It is common practice to blame incompetence and/or mis-management on weather in the skiing industry. Believe me, I was sadly personally guilty of playing the game.
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I, too, read the weather line in the SkiNH Press Release a diplomatic way to save face for a big constituent of Ski NH. I think privately those in the know would admit that Vail's issues played a role.
Jeff,
Yes I did read the rest. I also still think being a Vail apologist and excuse maker for their NH properties is a bunch of bullshit.
Again, the competition did not have these issues and didn't make the weather excuses you and Vail are trying to make. No one wants to hear that from the wealthiest ski company in the world.
It's okay. You really can say Vail sucks. They won't impeach you as President of the Mt Snow fan club.
Vail does shitty things sometimes. You know like billing the family of the deceased Zipline worker for function space use for his memorial.
It's okay to call it like it is
There's never just a straight apology from Vail for poor performance and sometimes unethical business practices. There's always a "yeah but." They should stop that. So, should you. It makes the admission of mistake look disingenuous
Yes I did read the rest. I also still think being a Vail apologist and excuse maker for their NH properties is a bunch of bullshit.
Again, the competition did not have these issues and didn't make the weather excuses you and Vail are trying to make. No one wants to hear that from the wealthiest ski company in the world.
It's okay. You really can say Vail sucks. They won't impeach you as President of the Mt Snow fan club.
Vail does shitty things sometimes. You know like billing the family of the deceased Zipline worker for function space use for his memorial.
It's okay to call it like it is
There's never just a straight apology from Vail for poor performance and sometimes unethical business practices. There's always a "yeah but." They should stop that. So, should you. It makes the admission of mistake look disingenuous
