VAIL SUCKS

[machski]

You have to wonder if the constant movement of Vail Resorts senior management around the company has finally caught up to them. I have no idea how you drive major capital projects like they are doing this year with the amount of moving heads they have. Balls will get dropped as we just saw.

 

[deadheadskier]

Should have hired the F&B manager to oversee the project I guess.

 

[Edd]

As the article states, it's not clear as to if the crew who made the error is a Vail Mtn Ops crew, a Leitner-Poma crew or a subcontractor that either Vail Resorts or L-P hired to help with the work?

Also, not sure from the article if this was say a 25 yard "oops" where they say went up the East side of a streambed when they were supposed to go up the West side of it, or say a 1/2 mile long plus "oops" where they cleared a work road ina completely different location than they were supposed to. Either way it's an issue

Lot's of unkowns in the size of this issue the USFS crew found based on how the article was worded

Right on cue with the, "maybe it was not Vail's fault."

Rob Katz, is that you?

As to the point, true that a contractor or sub may have made the mistake, but at the end of the day Vail is the one accountable to the USFS.

Dr Jeff is a tireless defender of rich guys (Trump) and corporations. He’ll not stand by while they’re disparaged on an internet ski forum.

Thank you, Jeff, for standing up for those at the bottom rung.

 

[drjeff]

Its called critical thinking skills. You know, get all the facts before making a judgement.

If one wants to stop trying to be one of the cool kids and just jump on the Vail Sucks all the time bandwagon, it's pretty obvious that the article has a enticing headline and lacks the complete details.

TB - pretty sure if you brought such a weak story infront of a judge, you'd be laughed out of a courtroom. DHS - pretty sure you would love clients to sell to who just take what you say on blind faith and never question any data associated with a device you might be trying to sell them.

But these days there are so many industries out there who bank on folks not reading past the headline and into the substance. Also explains plenty of claims just about every elected official makes that never has follow through on them.

Someone screwed up in this situation at Keystone. That I have no doubt about. Who was at fault, since ultimately with lift construction there are subcontractors involved and the lift manufacturer, not the resort is responsible for installing the lift as the permit for it details. Just a minor detail there

 

[thetrailboss]

Its called critical thinking skills. You know, get all the facts before making a judgement.

If one wants to stop trying to be one of the cool kids and just jump on the Vail Sucks all the time bandwagon, it's pretty obvious that the article has a enticing headline and lacks the complete details.

TB - pretty sure if you brought such a weak story infront of a judge, you'd be laughed out of a courtroom. DHS - pretty sure you would love clients to sell to who just take what you say on blind faith and never question any data associated with a device you might be trying to sell them.

But these days there are so many industries out there who bank on folks not reading past the headline and into the substance. Also explains plenty of claims just about every elected official makes that never has follow through on them.

Someone screwed up in this situation at Keystone. That I have no doubt about. Who was at fault, since ultimately with lift construction there are subcontractors involved and the lift manufacturer, not the resort is responsible for installing the lift as the permit for it details. Just a minor detail there

So first of all, some of the comments were tongue and cheek. You can't take a ribbing I guess.

Second, as to the issue of fault, regarding USFS and its position, fault clearly runs to Vail because Vail is the leasee. Of course Vail has a contract with the GC (Leitner Poma) that likely provides insurance coverage and an indemnity provision (unless the issue WAS Vail's fault) that would require GC to defend Vail if it, or a sub, screwed up. But as to USFS, Vail is on the hook. That's how it shakes out.

 

[deadheadskier]

Its called critical thinking skills. You know, get all the facts before making a judgement.

If one wants to stop trying to be one of the cool kids and just jump on the Vail Sucks all the time bandwagon, it's pretty obvious that the article has a enticing headline and lacks the complete details.

TB - pretty sure if you brought such a weak story infront of a judge, you'd be laughed out of a courtroom. DHS - pretty sure you would love clients to sell to who just take what you say on blind faith and never question any data associated with a device you might be trying to sell them.

But these days there are so many industries out there who bank on folks not reading past the headline and into the substance. Also explains plenty of claims just about every elected official makes that never has follow through on them.

Someone screwed up in this situation at Keystone. That I have no doubt about. Who was at fault, since ultimately with lift construction there are subcontractors involved and the lift manufacturer, not the resort is responsible for installing the lift as the permit for it details. Just a minor detail there

Settle down Francis. Only kidding around here. You have left yourself wide open to such ribbing due to your history of defending Vail probably 95% of the time as if you were employed by their PR department. You are as one sided pro-Vail as you accuse us Vail hater "cool kids" of being.

Critical thinking skills work both ways

 

[jaytrem]

Jeff, come to the NO HOMER CLUB...join us... join us...

 

[ss20]

If this was Magic we'd be sending them "get well soon" flowers.

Good on Vail for at least being transparent. Doubt they have much for an in-house crew, was almost certainly a contractor

 

[NYDB]

If this was Magic we'd be sending them "get well soon" flowers.

Good on Vail for at least being transparent. Doubt they have much for an in-house crew, was almost certainly a contractor

If it was magic this would have turned a 3 year lift install into a 5 year lift install.

 

[cdskier]

If this was Magic we'd be sending them "get well soon" flowers.

Good on Vail for at least being transparent. Doubt they have much for an in-house crew, was almost certainly a contractor

Oh I'd agree it was likely a contractor that did the work itself that caused an issue. However that doesn't mean Vail shouldn't have had someone on-site supervising things or at least checking in periodically. What about Keystone's head of mountain ops? Wouldn't someone like that in theory be pretty closely involved in the project?

What happened at Keystone is sort of like someone digging up your front yard at home without asking the utility companies to mark any underground lines first (or they were marked and were ignored). Before any work is done, they should ensure any restrictions/areas that need special care are clearly marked and everyone working on the project should be aware of the meaning of the markings/restrictions.

 

[tumbler]

Yeah, this one is on Keystone/Vail. This is why you have owner's reps PM's whether in house or outside consultant. Keystone answers to USFS, not a sub contractor. I'm sure there is language in the contract that the sub contractor owns the plans and conditions of the approval/permit but someone always has to be watching them.

 

[Keelhauled]

Oh I'd agree it was likely a contractor that did the work itself that caused an issue. However that doesn't mean Vail shouldn't have had someone on-site supervising things or at least checking in periodically. What about Keystone's head of mountain ops? Wouldn't someone like that in theory be pretty closely involved in the project?

I don't know, they'll own or rent heavy equipment anyway for trail maintenance, and they've got labor on site already, could well be an entirely in house mistake. Might even be more likely for ski area workers who aren't necessarily familiar with general construction practices to not know or care about conservation restrictions/setbacks/etc.

 

[abc]

I don't know, they'll own or rent heavy equipment anyway for trail maintenance, and they've got labor on site already, could well be an entirely in house mistake. Might even be more likely for ski area workers who aren't necessarily familiar with general construction practices to not know or care about conservation restrictions/setbacks/etc.

Goes back to this:

This is why you have owner's reps PM's whether in house or outside consultant.

 

[jimmywilson69]

Bergman bowl lift delayed and further environmental review required before continuing.

Everything they touch turns to shit

Bergman Bowl Unlocked | Keystone Ski Resort

Adventure further to new heights, with the addition of lift-served access to Bergman Bowl coming soon.

www.keystoneresort.com

 

[BodeMiller1]

There is wisdom local skiers have which can not be matched by corporate hacks. Ski mountains are very complex. Skiers as you see on this board, come from all walks of life and isn't this why the sport is so cool. Here's a scene - you're in the a bar at 4:30 PM and on your left you've got a fat old Italian Esq. and on your right a hot 27 year old with blue hair and they both want your for different reasons? Then, you go to a better bar.

A good friend of mine was organizing race events in Vermont. She called Stowe to see if having a race there was feasible. Stowe told her to pound sand. The sad truth is (especially these days with "The Dope Show Raging" Rich people do not want to be with the poor. Are there exceptions...

I hate to go George Costanza on ya butt: "We're living in a society" and our society is suffering growing pains.

 

[ThatGuy]

Here's a scene - you're in the a bar at 4:30 PM and on your left you've got a fat old Italian Esq. and on your right a hot 27 year old with blue hair and they both want your for different reasons? Then, you go to a better bar.

I’m so lost here. Is this about Ford stock?

 

[thetrailboss]

The latest Vail fail. Looks like the Mothership took the hit this time.

Vail Town Council Blocks Permits For Vail Resorts Employee Housing Expansion

Vail Resorts took another hit Tuesday night after the Vail Town Council voted to suspend the issuance of permits for the company's East Vail Booth Heights

unofficialnetworks.com

 

[djd66]

I’m so lost here. Is this about Ford stock?

in a sick way, I actually enjoy his posts and all the funny the responses.

 

[Smellytele]

in a sick way, I actually enjoy his posts and all the funny the responses.

He starts coherent then drifts off into the insane mumblings of a mad man.

 

[ss20]

He starts coherent then drifts off into the insane mumblings of a mad man.

I love it. Reminds me of all the people I've met at ski resort hostels.

Shout-out to a group of 3 dudes who were at Turn of River Lodge 3 or 4 years ago. Rather than pay for food they drove the 45 minutes to the Rutland Walmart and purchased a small Coleman grill. I went to bed at like 10pm and they were still fumbling in the parking lot trying to assemble it.