VAIL SUCKS

[thebigo]

Difficult to show the entire line but the triple and yankee lines are running into each other. Triple had to be an hour plus between entering the li e and unloading at top.

 

[Jersey Skier]

Makes sense. Mount Snow = big numbers for Vail. Give them the attention and funnel your passholders there. I think that may be the thinking.

You would think Hunter would be good for Vail too, but they sure don't treat it that way.

 

[deadheadskier]

Makes sense. Mount Snow = big numbers for Vail. Give them the attention and funnel your passholders there. I think that may be the thinking.

It makes sense, but there are some skiers you couldn't pay to go to Mt Snow on weekends. I would be one of those.

 

[RichT]

You would think Hunter would be good for Vail too, but they sure don't treat it that way.

19 degrees this morning and minimal snowmaking. AND with Rip's Return open with a mix of rocks on a 4 in base!

 

[kingslug]

its why i was scrolling through various Vail reports this morning. The biggest glaring example is Stowe which I compared to SB. They have only half as many runs open.
Its just something we will have to deal with if we want to be at those places. Next season...have to decide.

 

[drjeff]

I know this is just pertaining to my own Mount Snow "bubble", which is seemingly different than other Eastern Vail resort experiences this year by the sound of it.

Snowmaking wise, with what they're working on now, once that's done in probably the next 48hrs, with the exception of Fallen Timbers on the North face, middle exhibition on the main face, and the half pipe area, they would of made snow, and in decent amounts, they will of made snow on all of their snowmaking terrain before MLK Weekend, which in any season, is the bench mark that I go by.

Just my perspective based only on Mount Snow this year.

I need to slightly ammend this..

Fallen Timbers has had snow made on it. Technically they're making snow now in the half pipe area, albeit it's only 1 fangun at the top of it today.

So it's basically just middle exhibition they have yet to make snow on.

And adding a doubles lane, in addition to the singles lane and main queue lanes for the Bluebird was a nice addition this weekend!

 

[icecoast1]

I know this is just pertaining to my own Mount Snow "bubble", which is seemingly different than other Eastern Vail resort experiences this year by the sound of it.

Snowmaking wise, with what they're working on now, once that's done in probably the next 48hrs, with the exception of Fallen Timbers on the North face, middle exhibition on the main face, and the half pipe area, they would of made snow, and in decent amounts, they will of made snow on all of their snowmaking terrain before MLK Weekend, which in any season, is the bench mark that I go by.

Just my perspective based only on Mount Snow this year.

The weather has certainly dealt the northeast a bad hand, however the past couple of years since the snowmaking upgrade, they seemed to have most everything done with the exception of a few by Christmas week. Seems like they're behind this year, but again that can also be attributed to the weather. A better barometer will be what they do after MLK and in February with resurfacing.

 

[thebigo]

I need to slightly ammend this..

Fallen Timbers has had snow made on it. Technically they're making snow now in the half pipe area, albeit it's only 1 fangun at the top of it today.

So it's basically just middle exhibition they have yet to make snow on.

And adding a doubles lane, in addition to the singles lane and main queue lanes for the Bluebird was a nice addition this weekend!

What is the point of the doubles lane? Are they loading two sets of doubles on the six-pack?

 

[drjeff]

What is the point of the doubles lane? Are they loading two sets of doubles on the six-pack?

The Bluebird can take a double and a single in a socially distanced way.

This let's them send 3 up per chair (if both parties agree - and the vast majority that I saw and experienced today did) rather than just 2 singles

 

[thetrailboss]

It makes sense, but there are some skiers you couldn't pay to go to Mt Snow on weekends. I would be one of those.

The analytics did not catch that.

 

[thetrailboss]

its why i was scrolling through various Vail reports this morning. The biggest glaring example is Stowe which I compared to SB. They have only half as many runs open.
Its just something we will have to deal with if we want to be at those places. Next season...have to decide.

Wow. Pre-Vail it was the other way around.

 

[thetrailboss]

You would think Hunter would be good for Vail too, but they sure don't treat it that way.

Again, must be the analytics did not catch that.

 

[thebigo]

The Bluebird can take a double and a single in a socially distanced way.

This let's them send 3 up per chair (if both parties agree - and the vast majority that I saw and experienced today did) rather than just 2 singles

Just as an FYI, wildcat/crotch/attitash/sunapee have been loading two singles on a quad all year. Today there were new signs that per updated guidance, guests are only permitted to ride with members of their own household or something to that accord. I will take a picture tomorrow. It was enforced, I tried to load yankee with another single and was told that it is no longer allowed.

To me it is far safer to be on the opposite end of a moving high speed quad than in a mass of people waiting for a lift but I will of course play by the rules.

 

[skiberg]

Can we still get any money back on Epic. I don’t think so, correct?

 

[thetrailboss]

Can we still get any money back on Epic. I don’t think so, correct?

So I read the NYT article. What a joke. "Stay-at-home orders are not the same as mandatory quarantines because you can still go skiing if you want."

It's not good to be compared to the insurance industry.

 

[thetrailboss]

Skiing in the pandemic causes concerns for businesses in southern Vermont

Some southern Vermont businesses have closed or switched to curbside pickup. They are worried out of staters going skiing will bring coronavirus to their community. Olivia Lyons has more.

www.wcax.com

 

[chuckstah]

So I read the NYT article. What a joke. "Stay-at-home orders are not the same as mandatory quarantines because you can still go skiing if you want."

It's not good to be compared to the insurance industry.

Sucks if you're looking for a refund, but they certainly are different. That doesn't mean you have to renew, or ever hand Vail another penny in the future.

 

[cdskier]

45 / 127 stowe
99 TRAILS OPEN of 111 SB
says a lot....

Yes, but don't forget that SB has also been very lenient on opening their natural terrain for a long time while I feel like I remember Stowe being more conservative even pre-Vail. It would be interesting to compare open snow-making terrain between the two resorts. SB really only has a handful of routes left...which is pretty impressive considering their snow-making capacity isn't that great and the weather has been crappy. I feel like with just a quick look it seems like Stowe is further behind, but I'm not familiar enough with what trails have snow-making and would usually be done by now, etc. If I remember correctly, Stowe's snow-making capacity (in GPM) is higher than SB after the upgrade they did several years ago. If they're behind SB in snow-making, that's definitely saying a lot.

 

[cdskier]

My guess from reading Chris diamonds books, alterra and vail aren’t the competitors people think they are, mr diamonds opinion is that alterra is probably set up to do a public stock offering and aspen/ ksl crowd would cash out with big bucks, that’s one of the reasons they unlike vail tended to pay a premium for the resorts they bought, they weren’t planning on holding the resorts long term, COVID 19 is a big monkey wrench in that scenario, the big question can they survive the debt issues if they cannot do a stock offering, the way alterra set themselves up is a why I always thought especially in this environment they were far weaker than vail, all of the big four will struggle, like all ski areas, but I think vail is the strongest. Another weakness with ikon pass, lots of money is going to the powdrs, boyne, Jackson holes etc, epic really only has two properties on their pass in the us that they don’t own, telluride, sun valley.

I'm not so sure I agree on the Alterra being setup for a public stock offering. From the way I've heard Rusty talk, I get the impression they like the flexibility they have with being private (of course I could be completely wrong). I also don't necessarily agree that they're in the weakest as we have absolutely no insight into their financial situation since they're privately held. I think in a year like this, being private can actually be an asset (depending on who your owners/investors are). If they're people that have deep pockets and care about skiing itself, they very well could be more willing to not worry so much about losing money this year. Whereas a public company like Vail has to try to keep stockholders happy no matter what. The stockholders don't care that there are restrictions on skiing due to COVID.

 

[thetrailboss]

I'm not so sure I agree on the Alterra being setup for a public stock offering. From the way I've heard Rusty talk, I get the impression they like the flexibility they have with being private (of course I could be completely wrong). I also don't necessarily agree that they're in the weakest as we have absolutely no insight into their financial situation since they're privately held. I think in a year like this, being private can actually be an asset (depending on who your owners/investors are). If they're people that have deep pockets and care about skiing itself, they very well could be more willing to not worry so much about losing money this year. Whereas a public company like Vail has to try to keep stockholders happy no matter what. The stockholders don't care that there are restrictions on skiing due to COVID.

True. Consider though that the two owners are KSL (investment group from Denver IIRC) and Crown (owners of Aspen). So I can see how if they were playing short term than selling may make sense.