VAIL SUCKS

[thetrailboss]

And you all will love this one. I got on my last chair tonight with a guy who told me he worked for PCMR as an instructor. "Vail sucks", he said.

Then he got a call from his buddy.

"Hey how are things in Vermont?" He asked. Then he leaned over towards me and said, "my buddy works at Mount Snow. Man, oh man, you should hear about how effed up things are on the East Coast with Vail!"

 

[skiberg]

What a rip off. Vail is obviously choosing not to make snow. Obviously cut budget. Screw them. Buy Icon. Loon killington going for it. I will never buy Epic again.

 

[abc]

Struggling to get a Refund From Vail Resorts - The New York Times

Help! Despite State Travel Restrictions, I Can’t Get My Ski Pass Refunded

A reader writes in, saying he can’t ski because he can’t get into the state. It’s a very 2020 — wait, 2021 — travel predicament.

www.nytimes.com

“I could very easily go to Mount Snow and just say that I’ve quarantined,” Mr. Morse said when I called him this week. “But that is not helping solve this issue. That is why the numbers are as bad as they are.” He feels that Vail Resorts is punishing pass holders who are trying to do the right thing, he added.

 

[thebigo]

And you all will love this one. I got on my last chair tonight with a guy who told me he worked for PCMR as an instructor. "Vail sucks", he said.

Then he got a call from his buddy.

"Hey how are things in Vermont?" He asked. Then he leaned over towards me and said, "my buddy works at Mount Snow. Man, oh man, you should hear about how effed up things are on the East Coast with Vail!"

What do the Brighton passholders think of boyne? I know they are only building lifts at big sky, although not sure Brighton needs any lifts, but do people piss and moan about them operationally? Do they actually listen to their customers and give a shit?

 

[skiberg]

Icon is committed. Killington. Loon. Making snow. Trying to please customers. Vail does not care. Buy icon only way to make them get it. Cancel vail

 

[thetrailboss]

Icon is committed. Killington. Loon. Making snow. Trying to please customers. Vail does not care. Buy icon only way to make them get it. Cancel vail

Killington is run by POWDR. Loon is owned by Boyne. Alterra (who sells IKON) owns neither. Alterra DOES own Stratton, Tremblant, and Sugarbush in New England now. IKON is only a partner pass for these resorts.

As to IKON being committed, well, it depends. Solitude (their owned resort) has really been piss poor this year in terms of snowmaking and grooming.

IKON is good for some consumers--those that want to (and can) travel and don't want to be committed to one area. It was a nuclear response to Epic. Honestly, it was overkill and has ruined skiing out here. At least Boyne, Jackson Hole, and a few others recognize this and are requiring IKON passholders to make reservations. They realized that they were losing passholders to IKON. Honestly, if you buy a pass to a resort they owe it to you to give you access.

IKON and Epic can both disappear as far as I am concerned. Glad it works out for you. Apparently crowds and parking are not an issue for you.

 

[thetrailboss]

What do the Brighton passholders think of boyne? I know they are only building lifts at big sky, although not sure Brighton needs any lifts, but do people piss and moan about them operationally? Do they actually listen to their customers and give a shit?

My twilight season pass at Brighton this year was $199.00. Despite that low amount, they have treated me like a King. So far, they were first to open, and on that weekend were for passholders only. Same familiar faces. Staff treat me and others well. Locals love the place. Laid back. They also have required IKON users to make a reservation so that has kept crowds manageable and made it clear that if you buy a pass you get access. I get treated like a passholder. They appreciate my business. I've easily spent about $300 on other things so far this season (food, gear, logo stuff). Passholders are happy. They did the right thing. Infrastructure, for now, is fine. Crest is getting old. As is Great Western. They don't break down though. If anything, they have been slowly doing more activities and more in the off-season. It is still laid back.

Solitude is a mess. Locals hate it now.

As to Alta/Bird, Alta has been better this season than in the past. Snowbird has been a trainwreck. Three years ago, the last "bad" season snow-wise, Cumming cut employee benefits and shortly thereafter their good staff all left. Services have gone downhill. Ski School now is terrible--we and our friends (a total of 6 kids, 3 of which did 10 weeks of the program) dropped ski camp this year. That is about $10,000 right there gone. I love the terrain too much. Hence why I renewed, but the amount of money we have spent at Snowbird is next to nothing. Same for Alta. Snowbird used to do stuff for passholders, but not now. Pretty bad.

 

[thetrailboss]

Struggling to get a Refund From Vail Resorts - The New York Times

Help! Despite State Travel Restrictions, I Can’t Get My Ski Pass Refunded

A reader writes in, saying he can’t ski because he can’t get into the state. It’s a very 2020 — wait, 2021 — travel predicament.

www.nytimes.com

“I could very easily go to Mount Snow and just say that I’ve quarantined,” Mr. Morse said when I called him this week. “But that is not helping solve this issue. That is why the numbers are as bad as they are.” He feels that Vail Resorts is punishing pass holders who are trying to do the right thing, he added.

I will have to read this article.

 

[skiberg]

thats unfortunate to hear about Solitude. As for snowmaking, out west it’s a whole different world. They just can’t compete with east coast snowmaking so expectations need to be tempered. Of course there a good reason why that is And everybody out East wishes they had such a “problem”. I recognize that Ikon is a conglomeration but either they have an overall strategy Or the independent resorts are trying to be more directly competitive and snowmaking is a strategy. I think it’s the public nature of Epic. They need to show a bottom line. They need to prepare p/l statements and earnings reports and to attract further investors. People investing in Epic don’t necessarily care about skiing, only profitability, and it shows.

 

[drjeff]

I know this is just pertaining to my own Mount Snow "bubble", which is seemingly different than other Eastern Vail resort experiences this year by the sound of it.

Snowmaking wise, with what they're working on now, once that's done in probably the next 48hrs, with the exception of Fallen Timbers on the North face, middle exhibition on the main face, and the half pipe area, they would of made snow, and in decent amounts, they will of made snow on all of their snowmaking terrain before MLK Weekend, which in any season, is the bench mark that I go by.

Just my perspective based only on Mount Snow this year.

 

[thebigo]

Attitash stopped loading two singles on a quad today. There is a dude in a stowe coat loading the yankee and doing mask enforcement, apparently he is above all the gms in the east.

 

[FBGM]

on my way into deer valley today.

 

[kingslug]

45 / 127 stowe
99 TRAILS OPEN of 111 SB
says a lot....

 

[Cobbold]

Money I assume? Probably a direct result of bad weather in the East and West, a terrible season at Snowbird, and John Cumming's amazingly bad business decisions. So they will resume construction this summer?

Killington is run by POWDR. Loon is owned by Boyne. Alterra (who sells IKON) owns neither. Alterra DOES own Stratton, Tremblant, and Sugarbush in New England now. IKON is only a partner pass for these resorts.

As to IKON being committed, well, it depends. Solitude (their owned resort) has really been piss poor this year in terms of snowmaking and grooming.

IKON is good for some consumers--those that want to (and can) travel and don't want to be committed to one area. It was a nuclear response to Epic. Honestly, it was overkill and has ruined skiing out here. At least Boyne, Jackson Hole, and a few others recognize this and are requiring IKON passholders to make reservations. They realized that they were losing passholders to IKON. Honestly, if you buy a pass to a resort they owe it to you to give you access.

IKON and Epic can both disappear as far as I am concerned. Glad it works out for you. Apparently crowds and parking are not an issue for you.

My guess from reading Chris diamonds books, alterra and vail aren’t the competitors people think they are, mr diamonds opinion is that alterra is probably set up to do a public stock offering and aspen/ ksl crowd would cash out with big bucks, that’s one of the reasons they unlike vail tended to pay a premium for the resorts they bought, they weren’t planning on holding the resorts long term, COVID 19 is a big monkey wrench in that scenario, the big question can they survive the debt issues if they cannot do a stock offering, the way alterra set themselves up is a why I always thought especially in this environment they were far weaker than vail, all of the big four will struggle, like all ski areas, but I think vail is the strongest. Another weakness with ikon pass, lots of money is going to the powdrs, boyne, Jackson holes etc, epic really only has two properties on their pass in the us that they don’t own, telluride, sun valley.

 

[thebigo]

WILDCAT WEATHER FORECAST​

Happy Saturday Jan. 9, 2021. WE LOST POWER AND ALL LIFTS ARE ON HOLD.

 

[thetrailboss]

My guess from reading Chris diamonds books, alterra and vail aren’t the competitors people think they are, mr diamonds opinion is that alterra is probably set up to do a public stock offering and aspen/ ksl crowd would cash out with big bucks, that’s one of the reasons they unlike vail tended to pay a premium for the resorts they bought, they weren’t planning on holding the resorts long term, COVID 19 is a big monkey wrench in that scenario, the big question can they survive the debt issues if they cannot do a stock offering, the way alterra set themselves up is a why I always thought especially in this environment they were far weaker than vail, all of the big four will struggle, like all ski areas, but I think vail is the strongest. Another weakness with ikon pass, lots of money is going to the powdrs, boyne, Jackson holes etc, epic really only has two properties on their pass in the us that they don’t own, telluride, sun valley.

Wow, those are really good points. Makes sense in terms of Alterra and how it was set up.

 

[thetrailboss]

WILDCAT WEATHER FORECAST​

Happy Saturday Jan. 9, 2021. WE LOST POWER AND ALL LIFTS ARE ON HOLD.

So...is this legit?

Wow, what a terrible season for Vail.

 

[thetrailboss]

I know this is just pertaining to my own Mount Snow "bubble", which is seemingly different than other Eastern Vail resort experiences this year by the sound of it.

Snowmaking wise, with what they're working on now, once that's done in probably the next 48hrs, with the exception of Fallen Timbers on the North face, middle exhibition on the main face, and the half pipe area, they would of made snow, and in decent amounts, they will of made snow on all of their snowmaking terrain before MLK Weekend, which in any season, is the bench mark that I go by.

Just my perspective based only on Mount Snow this year.

Makes sense. Mount Snow = big numbers for Vail. Give them the attention and funnel your passholders there. I think that may be the thinking.

 

[thetrailboss]

thats unfortunate to hear about Solitude. As for snowmaking, out west it’s a whole different world. They just can’t compete with east coast snowmaking so expectations need to be tempered. Of course there a good reason why that is And everybody out East wishes they had such a “problem”. I recognize that Ikon is a conglomeration but either they have an overall strategy Or the independent resorts are trying to be more directly competitive and snowmaking is a strategy. I think it’s the public nature of Epic. They need to show a bottom line. They need to prepare p/l statements and earnings reports and to attract further investors. People investing in Epic don’t necessarily care about skiing, only profitability, and it shows.

True about expectations. That said, as FBGM and others noted, Solitude advertised a November opening then at the last minute said, "oops, can't do it, we'll get back to you" and left everyone hanging for almost a month. Why? Their snowmaking system failed and needed new components at the most crucial part of the season. Alterra sat back and dragged it out instead of quickly fixing it.

 

[thebigo]