VAIL SUCKS

[kingslug]

Yup
On so many sites people are complaining it sux out there??
Its a lot better than i thought it would be..

 

[kingslug]

Hunter all sold out for next weekend as well...place is so crowded..no one goes there LOL
Its going to be ...a Gore winter..

 

[Dickc]

I grew up skiing in the 60's, my Dad grew up skiing in the late 30's (Stowe) into 1941, then the war. I happened to ask him one day (Late 50's) what he was reading, and it was a ski or skiing magazine. He decided that if I wanted to know what he was reading, the pictures must have interested me, so rental skis, and repeat tries on the small hill in the front yard. (Winter of 59-60). Soon after I could do that, we went up to Gunstock. A few lessons and he could leave me and my sisters in the beginner area and he could take the main lift for a few runs. Mom (Whole different skiing story) sat in the lodge so us kids could have a place to go with a parent. (Remember, its the early 60's.) As time progressed I skied more and more with my Dad as my skills got better, and my sisters decided other things were more important. Fast forward to the late 60's, and we were going north most Saturday's. If it was open, we skied Whittier as it was steep and nearest. Early and late season it was up to Wildcat, 2 t-bars, a gondola, and the upper mountain double (Lynx chair). If Wildcat was closed for wind, we would go elsewhere, like Cranmore, or to a little place called Tyrol. Tyrol only had a Poma platter lift, and was more of less maybe equal to or smaller than Bradford in Haverhill, Ma. I asked one day why we bothered skiing such a small hill, and his answer was, "It's skiing, we came up here to ski". I learned Dad could be happy on any type of snow, and any type hill as long as he could ski. As we grow up idolizing our parents for the most part, I learned to be happy skiing most anything that had decent snow. Low crowds were a rarity, and most lift lines were tedious, but that was how skiing in the 60's was.

Once I had kids, and they got interested in skiing, off we went. My kids got bored at a few places we went, but I told them that it was skiing, would they rather do something else, because if they wanted to, I'd leave them home to do it. Now they are good skiing anywhere that is open, and have learned they actually like trying new places no matter what the maps on web sites look like because.....IT'S SKIING!!!

I see a lot in here bitching about Vail. Have not had the ability to try a Vail NE Resort as a result of my VERY uncooperative back, but just two trails at Wildcat would not be a lot different from my 1960's days as ALL of them were only natural snow days. Give Vail another year as many have surmised WHY Vail is so disappointing at Catitash, so give them a non-pandemic year to see what they can do to fix it.

You ALL are VERY Spoiled brats! Skiing is skiing, If its not what you want to be doing, go do something else. If its what you want to be doing, ENJOY it in spite of weather, management and labor limitations, crowds, or COVID. In much of the world it would be a luxury you would not be able to do.

It's all in ones perspective, and you need to refocus your perspectives.

 

[machski]

For one thing they are asking way to much for jay peak, vail does not over pay for resorts, they paid 50 million for Stowe, can’t remember the asking price of jay but it’s north of 50 million. I think attitash and wildcat have a lot of potential that needs vail resources to bring out the that potential plus these areas are way closer to Boston than jay, jay for all practical purposes is really a Canadian ski area, Canadians south of Montreal head towards jay, north of Montreal they go to tremblant ( spelling).

Ahh, but that is not an apples to apples comparison. Vail only got Stowe the Ski Area, they did not get the real estate or the Spruce Village complex. With Jay whoever buys it gets the Ski Area and all the real estate and extras there.

 

[deadheadskier]

I grew up skiing in the 60's, my Dad grew up skiing in the late 30's (Stowe) into 1941, then the war. I happened to ask him one day (Late 50's) what he was reading, and it was a ski or skiing magazine. He decided that if I wanted to know what he was reading, the pictures must have interested me, so rental skis, and repeat tries on the small hill in the front yard. (Winter of 59-60). Soon after I could do that, we went up to Gunstock. A few lessons and he could leave me and my sisters in the beginner area and he could take the main lift for a few runs. Mom (Whole different skiing story) sat in the lodge so us kids could have a place to go with a parent. (Remember, its the early 60's.) As time progressed I skied more and more with my Dad as my skills got better, and my sisters decided other things were more important. Fast forward to the late 60's, and we were going north most Saturday's. If it was open, we skied Whittier as it was steep and nearest. Early and late season it was up to Wildcat, 2 t-bars, a gondola, and the upper mountain double (Lynx chair). If Wildcat was closed for wind, we would go elsewhere, like Cranmore, or to a little place called Tyrol. Tyrol only had a Poma platter lift, and was more of less maybe equal to or smaller than Bradford in Haverhill, Ma. I asked one day why we bothered skiing such a small hill, and his answer was, "It's skiing, we came up here to ski". I learned Dad could be happy on any type of snow, and any type hill as long as he could ski. As we grow up idolizing our parents for the most part, I learned to be happy skiing most anything that had decent snow. Low crowds were a rarity, and most lift lines were tedious, but that was how skiing in the 60's was.

Once I had kids, and they got interested in skiing, off we went. My kids got bored at a few places we went, but I told them that it was skiing, would they rather do something else, because if they wanted to, I'd leave them home to do it. Now they are good skiing anywhere that is open, and have learned they actually like trying new places no matter what the maps on web sites look like because.....IT'S SKIING!!!

I see a lot in here bitching about Vail. Have not had the ability to try a Vail NE Resort as a result of my VERY uncooperative back, but just two trails at Wildcat would not be a lot different from my 1960's days as ALL of them were only natural snow days. Give Vail another year as many have surmised WHY Vail is so disappointing at Catitash, so give them a non-pandemic year to see what they can do to fix it.

You ALL are VERY Spoiled brats! Skiing is skiing, If its not what you want to be doing, go do something else. If its what you want to be doing, ENJOY it in spite of weather, management and labor limitations, crowds, or COVID. In much of the world it would be a luxury you would not be able to do.

It's all in ones perspective, and you need to refocus your perspectives.

I don't think people are spoiled brats for being pissed that their home mountains of many years are being run like garbage compared to prior ownership and the competition. Especially when the company in charge is the largest and wealthiest company in the business.

There is not a Cat or Attitash skier I know who wouldn't take Peak management practices back. The Sunapee folks feel the same in that the Mueller's ran it much better than Vail.

I'm hardly a snob and agree with your general premise that any skiing is better than no skiing. I can have fun spending the afternoon skiing MacIntyre with my son. But I also have choices of where I choose to spend my money. It won't be with Vail again unless they greatly improve their efforts in the Mt Washington valley.

 

[kingslug]

I ski wherever whenever,rain sleet, slush..whatever. But Vail has changed things. maybe for the better in some ways..worse in others. yes this season is different so I'm just taking it as it comes. 17 days so far and its been pretty good. If Hunter is sold out..I go to Gore, or Bell, or Platt. Conditions have been good.

 

[Tonyr]

Seeing what Vail did in the northeast, if that's the best thing happen to ski industry, I should take up knitting.

Vail has brought the price of skiing multiple resorts in one ski season substantially lower. I have never understood all of the hate? The company makes the majority of their revenue at Breckenridge, Vail, Whistler, and Park City. Every small resort on that pass is there to try and get people to make a trip to one of Vail's main resorts where they own most of the lodging and restaurants in the area.

I understand all of the complaints about Wildcat if I bought a pass to ski there exclusively I'd certainly be disappointed but when the season is bad like this year coupled with Covid you'd have to expect less focus on lower revenue producing resorts which is what is happening. There are still plenty of other places to go on that pass that makes it worthwhile.....in any event hopefully next season gets back to being somewhat normal!

 

[machski]

Overall I would says Les Otten was a mixed bag, with the good slightly outweighing the bad. No doubt New England skiing would be very different today without his influences. I would not complain too much about him changing terrain, as the only real terrain expansions that he built in New England are at Sunday River and Attitash, and he tried but was unsuccessful in changing Castlerock. Sunday River might have influenced other mountains to cut wide trails (cough Double Dipper), but that was done by other ownership, not him.

The Good:
Sunday River, While not perfect, overall he built the place from a local hill into one of the largest and best resorts in New England. There is something for everyone there, and rarely do I hear people hate on Sunday River. Again its not a perfect mountain, some trails I wish were cut differently but Sunday River would still be a local hill the likes of Black ME and Abrams if not for him.

Attitash, he similarly turned a small mountain into at one stage the largest by acreage resort in NH. IMO Bear Peak is the best pod of trails he designed. Attitash just was never finished before ASC went broke as the final piece was to be the Summit Express lift with additional trails cut from it. Attitash has since spent 20 years being ignored by its owners.

Sugarbush, Updating Gatehouse, Super Bravo lifts into HSQs and building Slidebrook express. replacing the poma on North Lynx with a triple

Killington, K1 Express, Needles Eye, Northbrook upgrades. Killington and Mount Snow got much needed lift upgrades that were lacking under S-K-I Ltd ownership

Mount Snow, Canyon and Nitro HSQs

Cranmore, Skimobile Express

Cheap multi mountain season passes

Introduced shaped skis before anyone else into rentals and ski schools

Built dedication ski school adventure centers at most of the resorts

Mixed
Grand Summit Hotels, these worked at some resorts more than others but ultimately building about 7 of them at the same time across New England and out west caused ASC's financial downfall.

Killington Ramshead Express, created a nice family area with a good fast lift but lost the summit of Ramshead. Truncating Sunrise, I never got to ski it, but to me it seems building that terrain was a mistake from the start.

Bad
Sugarbush, rearranging lifts at mount Ellen and trying to modernize Castlerock.

Expanding his empire too quick and building too much at once leading ASC into financial ruin. He never should have bought out S-K-I ltd.

Good list. Sunrise at Killington only made sense when they were going to expand into Parkers Gore. Once they gave that back to preservation, Sunrise was low elevation and far away from everything else. They made that swap partially (and Parker's Gore) to get access to the land between Ramshead and Pico for the interconnect. If that ever happens. Ramshead being chopped stunk, but the terrain above is considerably steeper and not novice friendly. Maybe in the future when Ramshead gets upgraded, they can do a mid unload at the current top and extend back to summit. Of course, any snowmaking lines to the top are long since toast.

Sugarbush lift switches at Mount Ellen. Never personally was crazy about it, but it was partially to have HSQ access on Ellen right off Slidebrook. LBO's plan all along was to build a hotel/base village proper at South, so it was logical with that to assume most would access Ellen via Slidebrook as that developed. He ran into a ton of resistance to his real estate plans and never got much off the ground at South. So the lift switch made little sense (other than you get the Exterminator pod HS lift served). Win putting back in a GMX was smart.

 

[Cobbold]

Ahh, but that is not an apples to apples comparison. Vail only got Stowe the Ski Area, they did not get the real estate or the Spruce Village complex. With Jay whoever buys it gets the Ski Area and all the real estate and extras there.

If jay was worth the asking price it would of sold by now, it’s over priced no matter how you cut the cards, my guess vail gets a piece of the hotel action since they are using vails reservation system.

 

[Cobbold]

I grew up skiing in the 60's, my Dad grew up skiing in the late 30's (Stowe) into 1941, then the war. I happened to ask him one day (Late 50's) what he was reading, and it was a ski or skiing magazine. He decided that if I wanted to know what he was reading, the pictures must have interested me, so rental skis, and repeat tries on the small hill in the front yard. (Winter of 59-60). Soon after I could do that, we went up to Gunstock. A few lessons and he could leave me and my sisters in the beginner area and he could take the main lift for a few runs. Mom (Whole different skiing story) sat in the lodge so us kids could have a place to go with a parent. (Remember, its the early 60's.) As time progressed I skied more and more with my Dad as my skills got better, and my sisters decided other things were more important. Fast forward to the late 60's, and we were going north most Saturday's. If it was open, we skied Whittier as it was steep and nearest. Early and late season it was up to Wildcat, 2 t-bars, a gondola, and the upper mountain double (Lynx chair). If Wildcat was closed for wind, we would go elsewhere, like Cranmore, or to a little place called Tyrol. Tyrol only had a Poma platter lift, and was more of less maybe equal to or smaller than Bradford in Haverhill, Ma. I asked one day why we bothered skiing such a small hill, and his answer was, "It's skiing, we came up here to ski". I learned Dad could be happy on any type of snow, and any type hill as long as he could ski. As we grow up idolizing our parents for the most part, I learned to be happy skiing most anything that had decent snow. Low crowds were a rarity, and most lift lines were tedious, but that was how skiing in the 60's was.

Once I had kids, and they got interested in skiing, off we went. My kids got bored at a few places we went, but I told them that it was skiing, would they rather do something else, because if they wanted to, I'd leave them home to do it. Now they are good skiing anywhere that is open, and have learned they actually like trying new places no matter what the maps on web sites look like because.....IT'S SKIING!!!

I see a lot in here bitching about Vail. Have not had the ability to try a Vail NE Resort as a result of my VERY uncooperative back, but just two trails at Wildcat would not be a lot different from my 1960's days as ALL of them were only natural snow days. Give Vail another year as many have surmised WHY Vail is so disappointing at Catitash, so give them a non-pandemic year to see what they can do to fix it.

You ALL are VERY Spoiled brats! Skiing is skiing, If its not what you want to be doing, go do something else. If its what you want to be doing, ENJOY it in spite of weather, management and labor limitations, crowds, or COVID. In much of the world it would be a luxury you would not be able to do.

It's all in ones perspective, and you need to refocus your perspectives.

Well said sir, well said

 

[Tonyr]

If jay was worth the asking price it would of sold by now, it’s over priced no matter how you cut the cards, my guess vail gets a piece of the hotel action since they are using vails reservation system.

I believe they originally wanted around 150 million for everything and will probably be lucky to get 50 or 60 mill when all is said and done. The other problem is the town, they are/where collecting real estate taxes based on a 200 mill valuation, a 60 mill re-assessment will lower annual real estate taxes substantially.

 

[Cobbold]

I grew up skiing in the 60's, my Dad grew up skiing in the late 30's (Stowe) into 1941, then the war. I happened to ask him one day (Late 50's) what he was reading, and it was a ski or skiing magazine. He decided that if I wanted to know what he was reading, the pictures must have interested me, so rental skis, and repeat tries on the small hill in the front yard. (Winter of 59-60). Soon after I could do that, we went up to Gunstock. A few lessons and he could leave me and my sisters in the beginner area and he could take the main lift for a few runs. Mom (Whole different skiing story) sat in the lodge so us kids could have a place to go with a parent. (Remember, its the early 60's.) As time progressed I skied more and more with my Dad as my skills got better, and my sisters decided other things were more important. Fast forward to the late 60's, and we were going north most Saturday's. If it was open, we skied Whittier as it was steep and nearest. Early and late season it was up to Wildcat, 2 t-bars, a gondola, and the upper mountain double (Lynx chair). If Wildcat was closed for wind, we would go elsewhere, like Cranmore, or to a little place called Tyrol. Tyrol only had a Poma platter lift, and was more of less maybe equal to or smaller than Bradford in Haverhill, Ma. I asked one day why we bothered skiing such a small hill, and his answer was, "It's skiing, we came up here to ski". I learned Dad could be happy on any type of snow, and any type hill as long as he could ski. As we grow up idolizing our parents for the most part, I learned to be happy skiing most anything that had decent snow. Low crowds were a rarity, and most lift lines were tedious, but that was how skiing in the 60's was.

Once I had kids, and they got interested in skiing, off we went. My kids got bored at a few places we went, but I told them that it was skiing, would they rather do something else, because if they wanted to, I'd leave them home to do it. Now they are good skiing anywhere that is open, and have learned they actually like trying new places no matter what the maps on web sites look like because.....IT'S SKIING!!!

I see a lot in here bitching about Vail. Have not had the ability to try a Vail NE Resort as a result of my VERY uncooperative back, but just two trails at Wildcat would not be a lot different from my 1960's days as ALL of them were only natural snow days. Give Vail another year as many have surmised WHY Vail is so disappointing at Catitash, so give them a non-pandemic year to see what they can do to fix it.

You ALL are VERY Spoiled brats! Skiing is skiing, If its not what you want to be doing, go do something else. If its what you want to be doing, ENJOY it in spite of weather, management and labor limitations, crowds, or COVID. In much of the world it would be a luxury you would not be able to do.

It's all in ones perspective, and you need to refocus your perspectives.

Well said sir, well said.

I believe they originally wanted around 150 million for everything and will probably be lucky to get 50 or 60 mill when all is said and done. The other problem is the town, they are/where collecting real estate taxes based on a 200 mill valuation, a 60 mill re-assessment will lower annual real estate taxes substantially.

my guess their is limited amount of buyers for ski areas, the big four are like the Yankees, if they are in the market for free agents prices go way up, not in the market prices come way down. Big four not interested in jay, price drops because their is no demand for jay. Trying to sell a ski area in the era of Covid 19 is another unique situation to say the least.

 

[abc]

Hunter all sold out for next weekend as well...place is so crowded..no one goes there LOL
Its going to be ...a Gore winter..

I was hoping to ski Hunter some. But that's unlikely to happen as it stands.

 

[abc]

There are still plenty of other places to go on that pass that makes it worthwhile.

Like where? Hunter?

 

[Cobbold]

Like where? Hunter?

You don’t like Stowe, okemo, Mt snow, Sunapee, crouched?

 

[skiberg]

Didn’t les make the canyon lift at big K and open up and cut the superstar trails. canyon is terrible. sr was not a sleepy hill prior to les. They had base condos and were expanding. Sure he made it a major destination, but really every trail feels the same. he ruined the ski experience. I don’t care how many days a year he skied he doesn’t understand skiers. Great groomers but can boring as hell also. When the snow is good the hill can ski very well though. They used to have a bunch of classic New England terrain. Gone. White heat is a travesty. it kills me to think of the terrain he could have created on that hill.

 

[abc]

You don’t like Stowe, okemo, Mt snow, Sunapee, crouched?

In case you forgot, Stowe, okemo, Mt snow are in Vermont! It's inaccessible for anyone but Vermonters.

It's not for myself. I'm not a 'catitash' loyalist. But I can understand their frustration. Because it's clearly Vail's doing if all the neighboring mountains are over 50% open despite the bad winter, and Wildcat is only 20% open!

 

[Cobbold]

In case you forgot, Stowe, okemo, Mt snow are in Vermont!

I have heard that

 

[Cobbold]

In case you forgot, Stowe, okemo, Mt snow are in Vermont!

In case you forgot, Stowe, okemo, Mt snow are in Vermont!

Mt crotched damm autocorrect

 

[abc]

The forum software still have some quirk.

I struggle sometimes. Post stuff I didn't mean to, half way in composing the message.