VAIL SUCKS

[Mainer]

Mwv also is the only school district in nh to have presidents week off instead of the next week. Why, so the high school kids can work at the mountain. Labor has always been a problem here. When you know somethings coming and don’t plan better, that’s just stupidity. And it’s the locals paying the price with a mountain not running midweek lifts they always ran. Also the mwv chamber pass wasn’t offered this year because vail wouldn’t join the chamber. They just did 2 weeks ago. No more dependent passes unless it’s your child. Vail doesn’t give a shit about locals.

 

[jimmywilson69]

Vail has a lot to learn about northeastern and mid-Atlantic skiing. If they're smart, they're realize they can still make a lot of money in these areas, but they require a completely different operational plan than their destination resorts in the mountain west.

I'm cautiously giving them a pass because of COVID, but will still be critical of them not hiring soon enough. that was a common theme in the east. It makes no sense.

 

[Smellytele]

I would wait until the 22-23 season to even think of getting an epic just to see if the f up next season as well.

 

[skimagic]

Visitation to VR reported as down through the new year, no surprise since its been way below average for snow.- no mention of eastern performance in this Nasdaq snippet


Vail Resorts, a mountain resort company, reported a 16.6% year-over-year decline in ski visitation across North America for the season-to-date period ending Jan. 3, 2021. The weak ski season metric reflects travel restrictions and a decline in demand amid the COVID-19 pandemic. Shares of Vail Resorts fell 3.7% on Friday.


Vail Resorts (MTN) said that its season-to-date ski visits declined primarily due to lower lift ticket purchases. The company’s season-to-date lift ticket revenues declined by 20.9% year-over-year.

Vail also witnessed a 52.6% drop in ski school revenue and a 66.2% decline in dining revenue in the season-to-date period. Vail’s retail/rental sales for North American resort and ski area locations also declined 39.2% compared to the year-ago season-to-date period.

The company’s CEO Rob Katz said, “We expect these declines were primarily driven by reduced demand for destination visitation at our western resorts and COVID-19 related capacity limitations which were further impacted by snowfall levels that were well below average at our Colorado, Utah and Tahoe resorts through the holiday season

“The company should focus on building guest loyalty in 2021 in order to see the benefits in 2022.”

 

[icecoast1]

I don't think it is fair to blame Vail for the lack of staffing this year. They rely heavily on their international staff and this year those visas are suspended. Are they understaffed? 1000% yes. There are other shortcomings that I am noticing with Vail vs. Peak, but I am hopeful that this one goes away next year if the visa program returns...

They dug the hole themselves by building a model around flooding the market with foreign labor and driving away local work by suppressing wages and paying below market rates. It's true the pandemic caused the j1 shortage, but Vail made the problems worse for themselves

Also, Vail literally waited til the last minute to start hiring staff instead of spending the summer trying to recruit. By the time they started hiring, the already small labor pool was even smaller.


The return of foreign help next year will certainly help, however they still need to fix the problem they have with hiring domestic workers, and they might be doing some irreparable damage to that with some of the corporate decisions they're making this winter

 

[deadheadskier]

I would wait until the 22-23 season to even think of getting an epic just to see if the f up next season as well.

That's where my mind is at. Cannon next year and reevaluate for the following season if Vail has earned my business back. Yesterday was a reminder that as long as Cat is 70-80% open with trails like Upper Wildcat, Catenary and Schuss skiing well, it's my favorite place to ski in New Hampshire.

But I need to know that a decent amount of snowmaking terrain is going to be reliably open for Xmas week if not sooner. This is especially true with the shortened season length. To me that means the three primary TTB routes and a couple others off Bobcat chair. I'd imagine others feel the Snowcat terrain needs to be open by Xmas as well. That's enough to keep me entertained until the natural terrain fills in.

 

[Mainer]

I read somewhere bobcat failed inspection, could just be a rumor

 

[FBGM]

I don't think it is fair to blame Vail for the lack of staffing this year. They rely heavily on their international staff and this year those visas are suspended. Are they understaffed? 1000% yes. There are other shortcomings that I am noticing with Vail vs. Peak, but I am hopeful that this one goes away next year if the visa program returns...

Or vail can pay a decent wage and hire people in the community. I grew up skiing a small hill and all employees were from the area. Yes, it was small and total employees were like 50. But still. Hire close

 

[thebigo]

Quick look at job postings on website explains it all in NH:

Wildcat - 37 jobs
Attitash - 40 jobs, several year round
Crotched - 0 jobs
Sunapee - 5 jobs, all seasonal

I recollect many south american and eastern european name tags at attitash over the years, both summer and winter, but not at wildcat.

 

[kingslug]

Funny how a small place like Plattekill has.....no problems.

 

[cdskier]

Funny how a small place like Plattekill has.....no problems.

Not really...they're so small that they don't need that many staff. And with being open only on weekends, that makes it easier again.

 

[kingslug]

True..but they do it right. Between the mega passes and covid, most resorts are just having a tough time. I'm just going to ride it out and see how things go next season.
So far this season has been way better than I thought though. If one place is a nightmare..try another.

 

[deadheadskier]

Another factor to consider is ski passes are so cheap now, they aren't the incentive they used to be as a job perk. If I'm a local F&B worker, the math just doesn't add up. I likely make more money at an independent restaurant with fewer layoffs than working at the ski area themselves. I'll just keep my local gig and buy a pass.

Moral of the story, the mountains need to be paying better if they want to avoid staffing shortages.

 

[Quietman]

Or, the greater risk of exposure to Covid while working at the mtn wasn't worth the free pass for who's knows what of a ski season when the hills started hiring in Oct/Nov.

 

[MogulMonsters]

Quick look at job postings on website explains it all in NH:

Wildcat - 37 jobs
Attitash - 40 jobs, several year round
Crotched - 0 jobs
Sunapee - 5 jobs, all seasonal

I recollect many south american and eastern european name tags at attitash over the years, both summer and winter, but not at wildcat.

Look at the dates the jobs at Attitash were posted.......

 

[1dog]

So we import foreign workers -who wouldn't want to come to the US to experience what we have- and then potentially pay them less, but have to put them up in housing and maybe even feed/transport them back and forth to mt?

In a full-employment economy that seems ok, but don't they have the same employment minimums other employees have? Don't they have higher costs associated with housing, transport, and food?

Or, are we that spoiled as US residents that we don't have kids 16 and up to cover those positions? I have no answers, but I do know as an employer that my costs for a $15 per hour employee is approx $17+ when you add in employer SS/Medicare match, PTO, FLA, health insurance, and a few other mandated costs. Maybe foreign workers don't need to have those covered or maybe it's low enough to not have to report to IRS as permanent employees? I dunno, but large companies pay fortunes to lobbyists to keep the gravy train of migrant workers open.

 

[kingslug]

Pulling perks from patrollers is not the best idea either..they don't grow on trees. Wonder how that will play out in the future.

 

[thetrailboss]

So we import foreign workers -who wouldn't want to come to the US to experience what we have- and then potentially pay them less, but have to put them up in housing and maybe even feed/transport them back and forth to mt?

In a full-employment economy that seems ok, but don't they have the same employment minimums other employees have? Don't they have higher costs associated with housing, transport, and food?

Or, are we that spoiled as US residents that we don't have kids 16 and up to cover those positions? I have no answers, but I do know as an employer that my costs for a $15 per hour employee is approx $17+ when you add in employer SS/Medicare match, PTO, FLA, health insurance, and a few other mandated costs. Maybe foreign workers don't need to have those covered or maybe it's low enough to not have to report to IRS as permanent employees? I dunno, but large companies pay fortunes to lobbyists to keep the gravy train of migrant workers open.

The point is that local employees: (a) are not available; (b) are taking higher paying jobs; and/or (c) are not skilled in these areas. For a lot of resort towns, it is usually (a) and (b). The pay for these jobs is not enough to live in the areas. And the seasonal nature of the work is not desirable for most people. And I am pretty sure that most resorts charge the employees room and board for their time in the U.S. But this is moot because, at last check, the Trump Administration ended/limited the number of visas for this program.

 

[skiur]

I don't think it is fair to blame Vail for the lack of staffing this year. They rely heavily on their international staff and this year those visas are suspended. Are they understaffed? 1000% yes. There are other shortcomings that I am noticing with Vail vs. Peak, but I am hopeful that this one goes away next year if the visa program returns...

Other resorts are short staffed as well due to no foreign staff, but the problem seems much worse at vail resorts.

 

[snoseek]

You know what really sucks is when your staff is pretty much 50/50 foreign to local staff and on the shoulder you have to meet a minimum amount of hours to fulfill the foreigners contract while the local dude that is more skilled and comes back year after year starved. Good times....