VAIL SUCKS

[ss20]

Another factor to consider is ski passes are so cheap now, they aren't the incentive they used to be as a job perk. If I'm a local F&B worker, the math just doesn't add up. I likely make more money at an independent restaurant with fewer layoffs than working at the ski area themselves. I'll just keep my local gig and buy a pass.

Moral of the story, the mountains need to be paying better if they want to avoid staffing shortages.

This 1000%. Either pay above minimum wage or make season passes expensive again....that's how you'll get staff back.

 

[MogulMonsters]

This 1000%. Either pay above minimum wage or make season passes expensive again....that's how you'll get staff back.

The McDonalds in North Conway has a sign out-front offering $2500 in tuition reimbursement....

 

[FBGM]

The McDonalds in North Conway has a sign out-front offering $2500 in tuition reimbursement....

The McDonalds and other fast food restaurants in Park City start at higher wage then a lifty and probably the restaurant workers and even year 1 snowmakers.

 

[thetrailboss]

The McDonalds and other fast food restaurants in Park City start at higher wage then a lifty and probably the restaurant workers and even year 1 snowmakers.

Exactly.

 

[thetrailboss]

Other resorts are short staffed as well due to no foreign staff, but the problem seems much worse at vail resorts.

Yes, makes sense. They help the bottom line by relying on cheap labor = foreign help. So Vail relied (too much) upon foreign labor.

 

[abc]

pay above minimum wage

THIS!

 

[crystalmountainskier]

That’s what happens when you pay like shit, treat your employees like shit, and take any and all fun out of working in the ski industry.

Other resorts are short staffed as well due to no foreign staff, but the problem seems much worse at vail resorts.

Lots of people work at ski resorts for the experience, not for the money. From what I hear, Vail has managed to take the fun out of ski resort work. The lifties don't even get to ski down when they go on break from the top of a lift.

 

[JimG.]

Lots of people work at ski resorts for the experience, not for the money. From what I hear, Vail has managed to take the fun out of ski resort work. The lifties don't even get to ski down when they go on break from the top of a lift.

That's really pathetic.

Corporation and fun don't go together. This cannot end well for skiers.

 

[kingslug]

Just look at Hunter. Used to be run by a family. I used to sit across from Orville in the cafeteria. Patrollers where taken care of. Place ran very well. Different place now.

 

[2Planker]

Same is true of both SR & Wildcat.
I was on a first name basis w/ LBO, descent benefits & treated fairly for 20 years, until Boyne took over '08.

As for Wildcat, we had Lifetime season passes until 2010 when the Franchi family sold to Peaks' and they decided NOT to honor that agreement.

Now - Vail sucks compared to what we all experienced for 20-30 years prior.
No comparison, not even close. Especially for a 50 year Cat/SR skier

 

[ScottySkis]

Just look at Hunter. Used to be run by a family. I used to sit across from Orville in the cafeteria. Patrollers where taken care of. Place ran very well. Different place now.

I agree 1000000%%%!!!

 

[drjeff]

The point is that local employees: (a) are not available; (b) are taking higher paying jobs; and/or (c) are not skilled in these areas. For a lot of resort towns, it is usually (a) and (b). The pay for these jobs is not enough to live in the areas. And the seasonal nature of the work is not desirable for most people. And I am pretty sure that most resorts charge the employees room and board for their time in the U.S. But this is moot because, at last check, the Trump Administration ended/limited the number of visas for this program.

There also seems to be somewhat of a notion amongst some, that ski towns

You know what really sucks is when your staff is pretty much 50/50 foreign to local staff and on the shoulder you have to meet a minimum amount of hours to fulfill the foreigners contract while the local dude that is more skilled and comes back year after year starved. Good times....

Let me give some perspective about my home mountain, Mount Snow, and the number of employees that they need to operate at "full staff" in a normal year, and how that is basically an impossibility, without the foreign workers, when you factor in the population of the surrounding communities, as well as the other businesses that need employees as well as the other ski areas (The Hermitage, Stratton, Bromley, and Magic) that also also looking for employees from that general area as well.

Mount Snow at full Winter staff, has give or take a little, about 1200 employees. True that some, especially instructors/coaches/patrollers/ambassadors are people who have second homes/seasonal rentals in the area and set their schedules based on when they'll be there (usually the times of highest demand), but that is a minority number of employees by far.

If you take the populations of the 2 counties (Windham and Bennington) that make up roughly the Southern 1/4 of VT, the total, full time population is just under 80k. That just isn't an abundance of people, who are full time residents of the region that they draw the majority of their employees from, especially when you factor in that some of those people are not in the work force at all as either retirees or too young, or other reasons. Then add in the other businesses that need employees as well, and you do have a shortage of potential employees to staff to the full amount that you need to operate as you want to.

That doesn't even get into the simple fact that many jobs at a ski area are seasonal, as the year round demand for the quantities of employees to staff the full, prime time ski season, is far more than the other say 9ish months of the year.

Without a doubt, the majority of ski areas, especially larger ski areas, do need to find and recruit a sizable number of employees from outside of their immediate geographic area, and that, regardless of what the pay level is, is just the reality of the situation. Is there a "better" way to do things? Probably. Will it take some type of paradigm shift with movements of pieces of the population from some regions where they may live now to other regions? Possibly. Is that something where we want to get into where in essence people are "told" where they have to live? That seems like a very slippery slope type thing there if you ask me

 

[abc]

Looks like this latest storm gave Vail a decent boost. Wildcat is showing almost all trail open!

But, with no man-made underneath the foot or so of new natural snow, I wonder how well does it ski? Rocks and grass all nicely covered up? And how well it last before it got beaten down?

More importantly, any of the woods skiable?

(am contemplating a trip up there, sometime between now and before the next holiday period)

 

[Jersey Skier]

Just look at Hunter. Used to be run by a family. I used to sit across from Orville in the cafeteria. Patrollers where taken care of. Place ran very well. Different place now.

Used to see Orville and Izzy clearing dirty tables in the lodge. I'd like to see Rob Katz do that.

 

[Mainer]

Wildcat is probably 50/50 dirt snow mix on natural trails. Bottom of mountain has a mean crust. Definitely rock ski material. Natural trails aren’t going to last long without another storm.

 

[FBGM]

There also seems to be somewhat of a notion amongst some, that ski towns


Let me give some perspective about my home mountain, Mount Snow, and the number of employees that they need to operate at "full staff" in a normal year, and how that is basically an impossibility, without the foreign workers, when you factor in the population of the surrounding communities, as well as the other businesses that need employees as well as the other ski areas (The Hermitage, Stratton, Bromley, and Magic) that also also looking for employees from that general area as well.

Mount Snow at full Winter staff, has give or take a little, about 1200 employees. True that some, especially instructors/coaches/patrollers/ambassadors are people who have second homes/seasonal rentals in the area and set their schedules based on when they'll be there (usually the times of highest demand), but that is a minority number of employees by far.

If you take the populations of the 2 counties (Windham and Bennington) that make up roughly the Southern 1/4 of VT, the total, full time population is just under 80k. That just isn't an abundance of people, who are full time residents of the region that they draw the majority of their employees from, especially when you factor in that some of those people are not in the work force at all as either retirees or too young, or other reasons. Then add in the other businesses that need employees as well, and you do have a shortage of potential employees to staff to the full amount that you need to operate as you want to.

That doesn't even get into the simple fact that many jobs at a ski area are seasonal, as the year round demand for the quantities of employees to staff the full, prime time ski season, is far more than the other say 9ish months of the year.

Without a doubt, the majority of ski areas, especially larger ski areas, do need to find and recruit a sizable number of employees from outside of their immediate geographic area, and that, regardless of what the pay level is, is just the reality of the situation. Is there a "better" way to do things? Probably. Will it take some type of paradigm shift with movements of pieces of the population from some regions where they may live now to other regions? Possibly. Is that something where we want to get into where in essence people are "told" where they have to live? That seems like a very slippery slope type thing there if you ask me

But the entire town of Bennington is on crack or H and has no job and needs a job. Yes they would have to sober up and be a decent human, but there’s your workforce.

 

[1dog]

There also seems to be somewhat of a notion amongst some, that ski towns


Let me give some perspective about my home mountain, Mount Snow, and the number of employees that they need to operate at "full staff" in a normal year, and how that is basically an impossibility, without the foreign workers, when you factor in the population of the surrounding communities, as well as the other businesses that need employees as well as the other ski areas (The Hermitage, Stratton, Bromley, and Magic) that also also looking for employees from that general area as well.

Mount Snow at full Winter staff, has give or take a little, about 1200 employees. True that some, especially instructors/coaches/patrollers/ambassadors are people who have second homes/seasonal rentals in the area and set their schedules based on when they'll be there (usually the times of highest demand), but that is a minority number of employees by far.

If you take the populations of the 2 counties (Windham and Bennington) that make up roughly the Southern 1/4 of VT, the total, full time population is just under 80k. That just isn't an abundance of people, who are full time residents of the region that they draw the majority of their employees from, especially when you factor in that some of those people are not in the work force at all as either retirees or too young, or other reasons. Then add in the other businesses that need employees as well, and you do have a shortage of potential employees to staff to the full amount that you need to operate as you want to.

That doesn't even get into the simple fact that many jobs at a ski area are seasonal, as the year round demand for the quantities of employees to staff the full, prime time ski season, is far more than the other say 9ish months of the year.

Without a doubt, the majority of ski areas, especially larger ski areas, do need to find and recruit a sizable number of employees from outside of their immediate geographic area, and that, regardless of what the pay level is, is just the reality of the situation. Is there a "better" way to do things? Probably. Will it take some type of paradigm shift with movements of pieces of the population from some regions where they may live now to other regions? Possibly. Is that something where we want to get into where in essence people are "told" where they have to live? That seems like a very slippery slope type thing there if you ask me

This makes sense. I'm curious to know what happened to the college kids who worked the mountain to get a pass( on weekends) - or the local second job family in area who could use the extra $7-10K in income during heating season or mud season when few tourists are around.

The higher than normal min wage argument just doesn't work. Of all the studies done on government-imposed minimum wage mandates, 85% illustrate it does the opposite of what's it's intended to do. I'm referring to Thomas Sowell or Walter Williams, or Uncle Milt ( Friedman) and many more.

Takes hours away from those who do work, limits higher wage people from staying on ( because they can earn more elsewhere that doesn't have those entry-level employees. It makes the cost of the service or the product higher priced and out of reach for the lower and middle income families. If it DID work, why not have a $25 min wage like Switzerland? Or $30?

Kind of like MMT for individuals. . . . . the end is not going to be pretty . . .

 

[1dog]

But the entire town of Bennington is on crack or H and has no job and needs a job. Yes they would have to sober up and be a decent human, but there’s your workforce.

Now THAT would be funny - if not so true. . . .

 

[deadheadskier]

Looks like this latest storm gave Vail a decent boost. Wildcat is showing almost all trail open!

But, with no man-made underneath the foot or so of new natural snow, I wonder how well does it ski? Rocks and grass all nicely covered up? And how well it last before it got beaten down?

More importantly, any of the woods skiable?

(am contemplating a trip up there, sometime between now and before the next holiday period)

Most of the natural snow trails skied great on Monday. Didn't duck into the woods. They were lightly trafficked from what I saw. The mountain is probably 12-18" of additional natural base away for everything to be game on. Just a few small storms in the 5-6" range would get it done.

 

[catskillman]

Lots of people work at ski resorts for the experience, not for the money. From what I hear, Vail has managed to take the fun out of ski resort work. The lifties don't even get to ski down when they go on break from the top of a lift.

not true at hunter I am told. They can ski on lunch when off clock... I would say about 90% of the employees do not ski or board however