VAIL SUCKS

[deadheadskier]

As far as what gets my business back, I would have to see massive improvements in the snowmaking operations at both Wildcat and Attitash. Both were brutally slow with terrain expansion last year compared to the local competition. I'd also have to see far better lift operations at Attitash. Unless both the Yankee and Summit Triple are running 7 days a week all season from Christmas week through the end of the season, I'm not interested in giving Vail my money.

Mother Nature completely saved Wildcat / Vails ass last winter. They got lucky with some decent natural snow in January and February and enjoyed one of the longest thaw free stretches of any season in recent memory. If not for that it would have been an even more disastrous season at Cat.

 

[thebigo]

This next ski season will make or break Vail for me, and it’s all about Wildcat. I’m not asking for miracles but if it runs similar when it’s essentially freed from pandemic restrictions then that’s it, I guess.

Given you appear to be the only regular NH poster that reupped, there will be a bunch of us refugees eagerly awaiting your trip reports next year for any glimmer of improvement.

 

[snoseek]

Vail has a bad rep for shit pay and less than ideal work culture and maybe they're too late to fix that idk.

I bet as funemployment ends people will return to their low paying shit jobs.

 

[Dickc]

Well, for $359 bucks, I got the Northeast senior pass. Only a few Blackout days and Sunapee and Crotched are pretty near. I WILL make an Attitash and a Wildcat weekday on it and let you know what I see. Have not skied either since the ASC days, so I may not have a balanced view, plus I grew up in the fixed grip days and am used to lines as a result.....

 

[p_levert]

Well, for $359 bucks, I got the Northeast senior pass. Only a few Blackout days and Sunapee and Crotched are pretty near. I WILL make an Attitash and a Wildcat weekday on it and let you know what I see. Have not skied either since the ASC days, so I may not have a balanced view, plus I grew up in the fixed grip days and am used to lines as a result.....

NE passes were already a great deal before the 20% price cut, now a super deal. I have no idea why Vail is even doing the 20% cut, although I personally like having much cheaper access to Stowe. But where is the business logic behind all of this?

 

[deadheadskier]

Undercutting virtually everywhere

 

[jimmywilson69]

Apparently they are only opening paintball at roundtop this summer. No adventure center, which includes a lot of thing that we're typically well attended. They also used to do summer camps that I know were a huge cash cow.

If Katz is so damn business savvy please explain to me how you turn down revenue. I know for a fact these summer things were more than break even activity.

 

[ss20]

Apparently they are only opening paintball at roundtop this summer. No adventure center, which includes a lot of thing that we're typically well attended. They also used to do summer camps that I know were a huge cash cow.

If Katz is so damn business savvy please explain to me how you turn down revenue. I know for a fact these summer things were more than break even activity.

This is my ASSumption....

If you're a mom/pop ski area and you can make a little profit in the summer, that's great. Say you spend $500,000 and you make $550,000 on summer stuff. Not too bad and adds to your bottom line.

Now let's say you're Vail. If you're spending $500,000 and making $550,000, your ROI looks terrible as a percentage, especially compared to what you earn in the winter selling $20 hamburgers and $1,2000 all-day private lessons. You're better off nixing it.

 

[ss20]

NE passes were already a great deal before the 20% price cut, now a super deal. I have no idea why Vail is even doing the 20% cut, although I personally like having much cheaper access to Stowe. But where is the business logic behind all of this?

Because the pass is too inexpensive to not buy it. Whether you're an avid skier, a daytripper, or DickC.... there's no reason not to get it it's so cheap.

The Epic pass is like the candy you see in line to check-out at the Supermarket. Some people come in real quick just for the candy alone. Others buy a bunch of other food and add it at the end. But for $1.50 why pass it up?

 

[p_levert]

Because the pass is too inexpensive to not buy it. Whether you're an avid skier, a daytripper, or DickC.... there's no reason not to get it it's so cheap.

The Epic pass is like the candy you see in line to check-out at the Supermarket. Some people come in real quick just for the candy alone. Others buy a bunch of other food and add it at the end. But for $1.50 why pass it up?

Really, I doubt it. $350 for a pass that you don't need, or will only use one or two times, is too much. I think that for most people the choice between Epic and Ikon is pretty simple. You go with the pass that provides the resorts that are close to your house, condo, or whatever. I don't think there's too many people that will routinely switch passes, and only a fairly small number who will buy both. Vail did a 20% discount on Epic and Ikon's reaction was: no price change. I think that tells you a lot.

OTOH, a 20% cut in the Epic Day pass should stimulate demand quite a bit. Who doesn't want Stowe/Okemo/Hunter at a bargain price? It worked for me.

 

[Dickc]

Because the pass is too inexpensive to not buy it. Whether you're an avid skier, a daytripper, or DickC.... there's no reason not to get it it's so cheap.

The Epic pass is like the candy you see in line to check-out at the Supermarket. Some people come in real quick just for the candy alone. Others buy a bunch of other food and add it at the end. But for $1.50 why pass it up?

Oh, I get my own category??? I bought a NE Silver senior pass from Boyne also as my daughter WAS working at Sunday River. TD Bank just “stole” her away with more pay and better benefits. She lives fairly close to Sunday River, so I WILL go there a few times this winter. (Free lodging and a visit!) I’ll also go to Loon a bunch on weekdays. I LIKE Loon. As I’ve also had five back surgeries now, I stay out of the woods, and stick to mostly all groomers for my health. I picked up the Epic Northeast simply BECAUSE its stupid cheap, and I will hit the New England resorts on it enough to make it worth it. I might even make one pilgrimage to Stowe. I last skied Stowe in early April of 1976 in amazing late season powder conditions.

 

[Razor]

We got the Epic Northeast Senior Midweek Pass. For $271, how can you beat that? Sometimes it's good to be old.

 

[Dickc]

We got the Epic Northeast Senior Midweek Pass. For $271, how can you beat that? Sometimes it's good to be old.

And for $88. more, I can ski most weekends if I want to. Just ONE Sunday and that extra $88. is paid for.

 

[p_levert]

And for $88. more, I can ski most weekends if I want to. Just ONE Sunday and that extra $88. is paid for.

When making the decisions, remember the payback period. The NE value pass for a senior is $359. If you go with the 6 day Epic Day pass with holiday blackout and limited resorts, it's $350 (no discount for seniors). The Epic Day limited includes all of the NE resorts and many western resorts (excludes Vail, Beav, Breck, PC), so there are additional options. For another $100, you could include Vail, Breck, etc. It's another great option.

 

[dblskifanatic]

When making the decisions, remember the payback period. The NE value pass for a senior is $359. If you go with the 6 day Epic Day pass with holiday blackout and limited resorts, it's $350 (no discount for seniors). The Epic Day limited includes all of the NE resorts and many western resorts (excludes Vail, Beav, Breck, PC), so there are additional options. For another $100, you could include Vail, Breck, etc. It's another great option.

Trouble following your logic! So a person getting a Senior Northeastern Value Pass that can pretty much have unlimited skiing to all New England ski areas except Stowe (ten days) should by a 6 day pass for 9 dollars less?

 

[p_levert]

Trouble following your logic! So a person getting a Senior Northeastern Value Pass that can pretty much have unlimited skiing to all New England ski areas except Stowe (ten days) should by a 6 day pass for 9 dollars less?

You just have to be realistic about how many days you will really ski. For myself, life gets in the way of skiing (job, work, kids, weddings, funerals). I have an Ikon pass, which I end up using for only 12 days or so (still a good deal). Then there are places I like that aren't on either Epic or Ikon. So I rather doubt I would use a NE value pass for even 6 days. So I went with a just a few days on Epic Day, mostly to grab Stowe/Okemo and maybe CB or Keystone in CO. Unlimited is always *so* tempting, but you have to be realistic.

 

[dblskifanatic]

You just have to be realistic about how many days you will really ski. For myself, life gets in the way of skiing (job, work, kids, weddings, funerals). I have an Ikon pass, which I end up using for only 12 days or so (still a good deal). Then there are places I like that aren't on either Epic or Ikon. So I rather doubt I would use a NE value pass for even 6 days. So I went with a just a few days on Epic Day, mostly to grab Stowe/Okemo and maybe CB or Keystone in CO. Unlimited is always *so* tempting, but you have to be realistic.

Last year was an anomaly for us where we got about 10 days in. The past 10 years not including last year, have averaged about 50 days per season. I get a pass and I want to use the heck out of it.

In your case, you went Ikon but got the Epic 6 day to dip you foot in the Vail pool. My guess it will be used strategically.

 

[p_levert]

@dblskifanatic - I only ski around 20 days a season. Want to ski more, but it never seems to happen. I didn't even go with the Epic 6 day, the Epic 3 day was enough for me (along with my Ikon pass).

Thank you Vail for the price reduction, but I still think you suck!

 

[Dickc]

The pass I bought allows me to ski as much as I want. I’M RETIRED, so I can go most any time. 6 Days would not quite do it. I wanted to be able to hit Sunapee and perhaps Crotched a few times each as they are closer than anything Boyne is from the Mass North Shore area.

 

[Newpylong]

Loon is only 15-25 minutes longer of a drive and quite a stark difference in terrain/product. Possibly more important they aren't Vail.