BenedictGomez
Well-known member
It was only your 3rd day ever snowboarding and you went to the top of 9990?
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VAIL SUCKS
- Thread starter thebigo
- Start date
It was only your 3rd day ever snowboarding and you went to the top of 9990?
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
I swear every week there's a new youtuber, tiktoker, or podcaster creating content about how Vail sucks & EPIC/IKON are ruining skiing.
Here's yet another one from just this week.
jimmywilson69
Well-known member
This guy is automatically discounted before the 2 minute mark when he called a high speed chair a gondola twice. Also is he holding a J at like the 5:25 mark? What a tool...
Maybe I've been lucky, or just smart enough not to travel and ski on weekends mostly, but I've not experienced these "EPIC" crowds out west or east. Skiing is always and has been crowded on weekends. Pre- High Speed lifts, weren't long lift lines the norm? That's what the old timers and old pictures tell me.
I was at vail last week, on a Tuesday, on a powder day, and could easily find parking and waited no more than 2-3 chairs for a chair the entire day. The following day I was at Copper also a powder day and the longest line was at the 3-Bears lift and it was ~5 minutes.
Yes more people have access to the mountains. isn't that good thing?
Where this megapass and duoopoly is ruining skiing is at the entry level. It SHOULD NOT cost someone $100+ (for just a lift ticket) dollars to ski at a barely 500 ft ski hill in PA during the week. This is not how you introduce people into the sport and get them hooked. I shouldn't not have to be telling any and everyone who casually skis that the cheapest way to buy a lift ticket for NEXT ski season is RIGHT NOW.
Maybe I've been lucky, or just smart enough not to travel and ski on weekends mostly, but I've not experienced these "EPIC" crowds out west or east. Skiing is always and has been crowded on weekends. Pre- High Speed lifts, weren't long lift lines the norm? That's what the old timers and old pictures tell me.
I was at vail last week, on a Tuesday, on a powder day, and could easily find parking and waited no more than 2-3 chairs for a chair the entire day. The following day I was at Copper also a powder day and the longest line was at the 3-Bears lift and it was ~5 minutes.
Yes more people have access to the mountains. isn't that good thing?
Where this megapass and duoopoly is ruining skiing is at the entry level. It SHOULD NOT cost someone $100+ (for just a lift ticket) dollars to ski at a barely 500 ft ski hill in PA during the week. This is not how you introduce people into the sport and get them hooked. I shouldn't not have to be telling any and everyone who casually skis that the cheapest way to buy a lift ticket for NEXT ski season is RIGHT NOW.
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I can only speak to NH Vail properties these days. The crowding isn't my biggest gripe. It's lack of aggressive early season snowmaking that's the problem in NH. If they worked hard to have Wildcat and Sunapee open with a decent product for Thanksgiving if not the weekend prior each season, and went balls to the wall in December with snowmaking at all 4 NH areas, I might still be an Epic Pass holder. They don't. Their snowmaking efforts are pathetic until January. They bet way too hard on mother nature helping them out
Of course now I'm completely satisfied with my Gunstock + Indy strategy and Vail may never get my business back in any meaningful way.
Of course now I'm completely satisfied with my Gunstock + Indy strategy and Vail may never get my business back in any meaningful way.
jimmywilson69
Well-known member
Your NH complaints are real and unfortunate. I've been lucky that nothing has really changed at Roundtop. Sure in a year like this they might stay open another 1-2 weeks, but the reality is the sun will melt out the snow and they barely make mid-march most years. Also, they aren't making any money right now that is not lost on me.
Wow, that’s quite a hurried rambling monologue. It makes me want to see a Peak Rankings video
And he relegated all of the Northeast to “feeder hill” status. Them's fighting words.
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kingslug
Well-known member
Well.if it passes..the we have a nice second home...then sell it a few years from now.
kingslug
Well-known member
Well..if you dont do it this year..youll be 1 year older when you do..
4aprice
Well-known member
Our town in Colorado doesn't ban them, however they charge a per bedroom fee to STR. We are not interested in STR's but hope to rent ours seasonally (summer) for which there is a market there with the RMNP and 3 lakes in the immediate area.
Not sure how I feel about banning STRs. I do think they for sure contribute to the housing crisis, but the other side me says it's their property and investment risk, people should be free to do as they please with it. Some people prefer the stock market as an investment vehicle, others prefer real estate, many do both.
At the end of the day whether it's stock or real estate, maybe there needs to be more restrictions over the amount any one entity can own. Consolidating too much of anything owned in one person's hands rarely benefits the many minority owners as well as the big cheese.
At the end of the day whether it's stock or real estate, maybe there needs to be more restrictions over the amount any one entity can own. Consolidating too much of anything owned in one person's hands rarely benefits the many minority owners as well as the big cheese.
jimmywilson69
Well-known member
it certainly is a double edged sword. A community that is driven by tourism needs short term and long term housing. I'd argue that the rich person with a second home/condo that gets used a few times per year and sits empty the rest of the time is a much bigger detriment to the community to someone who rents it out when they aren't using it.
I can't visit your town and spend my money if I can't find a place to sleep. I can't spend my money if there aren't people to take it in the shops and restaurants.
It's called planning and it can't be emotionally or haphazardly done.
I can't visit your town and spend my money if I can't find a place to sleep. I can't spend my money if there aren't people to take it in the shops and restaurants.
It's called planning and it can't be emotionally or haphazardly done.
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
Guy who is in like the 3.47% minority of people who can ski solely on Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and Thursday doesn't understand the problem.
Though to be fair, it is because he's "smart enough", not because has a livelihood which affords him that lucky, unique, and rare opportunity.
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BenedictGomez
Well-known member
I'm sure you're 100% correct on this, but that's because people dont travel from literally all over the world to ski Wildcat, Crotched, and Sunapee. EPIC definitely does lead to increased crowds in destination resort areas, because so many people chose to vacation there as opposed to XYZ other choice because they get "free" skiing.
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
I think even Warren would be like, "that dude's f&*#&$g crazy".
As one of one the ski patrollers in the film that BG posted yesterday said, 'Vail is good at acquiring resorts, not operating them.'
kingslug
Well-known member
Or..your so good at skiing..that you need to try something else.
I know a few people who do both...to keep it interesting.
I don't disagree that our humble, often day trip only areas, don't see the same destination visitation pressures as a Park City. However, in my two years owning Epic, these mountains were a bit more crowded than under prior ownership. I didn't leave because of the crowds. I left because of the weak snowmaking efforts. It seems to be less of an issue in VT, but I still bet Vail is less aggressive early season there too compared with prior ownership. It's like they don't understand that New England is mostly reliant on snowmaking. Snow from the ski is basically a bonus and can't be relied up on here.
BenedictGomez
Well-known member
It really depends where. Are we talking about a condo row in a place like Canyons, right on top of the ski area & owned heavily by vacationers? That seems to me like an appropriate place for AirBnb.
But there are residential communities here like Summit Park and Pinebrook where wealthy people bought 3, 4, 5, bedroom SFH, put in big hot tubs, rent them out, and then all winter you're having hot tub time machine parties on Tuesday and Wednesday night at what should be your "neighbor's house", but is instead being operated as a hotel party house right next to your kid's bus stop.
This is also increasingly being understood as a big safety concern as a lot of bad things are going down in people's AirBnbs.
Got it. So we really aren't talking about "banning" STRs per se, more just tighter zoning. That I can understand. My association mandates a minimum rental term of six months for those owners who wish to rent out their units. STRs not allowed.
It gets dicey in towns like Stowe or North Conway though. The residential areas butt up against the commercial areas. What do you mean I can't use my property on Park Street as a short term rental? The Green Mountain Inn is 150 feet away?
True That....
STR''s have certainly wrecked a few neighborhoods in the MWV.
We just sold a property that the (attorney) buyer's sole interest was for STR even though the HOA passed a NO STR clause in 2023.
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