Vermont Skier Visits Down Significantly Due to COVID-19

[drjeff]

LOTS to unpack here

The big deal about getting less vulnerable people (younger) vaccinated is all about reducing the possibility of mutations. It's about trying to stop this thing in it's tracks before the next version isn't worse than the Delta that's going ham right now. Who is to say the next mutation doesn't start killing kids at the rate that older people have been killed at. Let's try and avoid that.

As far as the pandemic being over? Do you not read the news? There are health systems in Florida and elsewhere that are getting crushed right now. Hospitals are having to put beds in cafeterias, auditoriums etc. because their standard care wards are maxed. That's a fact.

Yes, other unhealthy lifestyle choices consume hospital resources too, but never ever have smokers, Big Mac addicts etc , flooded hospitals to the point that they've had to shutdown elective surgeries and procedures because those hospitals having to divert their entire staff towards their care like has gone on with Covid. I won't even get into the money damage difference, but trust me when I say it's MASSIVE.

Incredibly naive post abc.

About the only part of your post I agree with is not giving a rats ass about the unvaccinated getting really sick and sometimes dying. I do have some empathy for those though as all early deaths are still tragic. Often the result of believing bad information, which YOU are now guilty of spreading

DHS, just curious if you have any idea about how many hospitals actually reached maximum capacity to care for COVID patients and had to turn patients away?

I know I certainly have seen some news reports of this happening to some hospitals, no question about that. However after just looking it up, there are currently just under 6100 hospitals operating in the US. Only a very small percentage actually reached capacity, and even in super hard hit areas like NYC early on, the majority of hospitals never reached capacity and the NAVY hospital ship that was brought in with something like 1000 beds aboard, had maybe 20 patients on it maximum. And how many hospitals and/or local municipalities set up temporary hospital tents that never saw a single patient?

Again, that is just objective data, and fortunately our Healthcare system as a whole never reached its breaking point.

I agree that postponement of elective procedures was a problematic thing, but not all of those postponements was from COVID patient care taking up staff and beds, much of it was based on state mandates suspending elective procedures/treatment. That IS a distinct difference. Heck, that is something that my dental profession spent multiple months trying to get clarification from my home state as to what exactly an emergency procedure vs what an elective procedure is... and we basically never got a straight answer until one random Friday afternoon in May of 2020 when my Governor in CT said that he actually never shut down dental offices, and most medical offices, which sure came as a surprise to so many of us

 

[cdskier]

Frankly as a whole, our society should, no actually almost HAS to learn to look beyond the headline and at the actual data, because those 2 things are often quite different.

For example, take the latest "County Transmission Risk" designation the CDC is using now. Since I haven't heard or read any clear explanation about what the exact metrics the CDC is using to asign these Transmission Risk designation levels, I went looking on the CDC's website for a few minutes today and couldn't find it.

Basically, I am not sure after trying to find it, and hearing Transmission Risk designation statuses changing all over the news right now, what the metrics the CDC is using. Is it based on an average number of new cases on a per 100000 basis for an entire County reaching some threshold level? Is it based on an individual city/town within the County reaching some threshold level? Is it based on an objective number of new cases over a certain period of time in a County? I honestly don't know after looking for that information.

Given that these Transmission Risk designation are now being used to affect how some areas go about their daily lives right now, shouldn't the metrics the CDC is using be readily available and clearly explained to the public?

We should/have to learn to demand to see the data behind the statements our elected officials and appointed public health leaders are using in determing if and what restrictions on our lives, are based on

Are you talking about the data shown here? https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#county-view

If so, an explanation of the metrics are all right on that page in the Footnotes...

 

[abc]

The big deal about getting less vulnerable people (younger) vaccinated is all about reducing the possibility of mutations. It's about trying to stop this thing in it's tracks before the next version isn't worse than the Delta that's going ham right now. Who is to say the next mutation doesn't start killing kids at the rate that older people have been killed at. Let's try and avoid that.

That's a false economy!

There're many billions of people in other countries that aren't getting vaccinated. They're getting infected left and right. The virus will mutate THERE! Heck, the Delta variant came from India!!!

In fact, we're probably better off by shipping all the vaccines to India instead of having them sitting here in this country not being taken up by the school kids!

As far as the pandemic being over? Do you not read the news? There are health systems in Florida and elsewhere that are getting crushed right now. Hospitals are having to put beds in cafeterias, auditoriums etc. because their standard care wards are maxed. That's a fact.

Your "fact" are just cherry-picked. Besides, it still boils down to majority of those are people choosing NOT to get vaccinated. Maybe hospital should start to deprioritize ICU for Covid patients!

Nothing motivates people to get vaccinated than to see people they know getting infected and getting seriously sick. No amount of donuts will be as "motivating"!

 

[abc]

At the beginning of the pandemic, the anti-lockdown conspiracy theorists insist it's the government's excuse to "control the population". I thought that's ludicrous. The government had a whole lot of other things to do than that.

Now, seeing how many people are insisting the government should mandate this and require that. I'm starting to feel the early anti-lockdown warning wasn't entirely without base.

Our "government" is made up of competing interest of the various groups. How quick and ready some people are to restrict other people's freedom is indicative of that danger being much more real than I realized.

Although I share your view regarding the benefit of vaccination, I don't support your position to mandate it to everyone. Not now. Not yet anyway.

 

[deadheadskier]

DHS, just curious if you have any idea about how many hospitals actually reached maximum capacity to care for COVID patients and had to turn patients away?

I know I certainly have seen some news reports of this happening to some hospitals, no question about that. However after just looking it up, there are currently just under 6100 hospitals operating in the US. Only a very small percentage actually reached capacity, and even in super hard hit areas like NYC early on, the majority of hospitals never reached capacity and the NAVY hospital ship that was brought in with something like 1000 beds aboard, had maybe 20 patients on it maximum. And how many hospitals and/or local municipalities set up temporary hospital tents that never saw a single patient?

Again, that is just objective data, and fortunately our Healthcare system as a whole never reached its breaking point.

I agree that postponement of elective procedures was a problematic thing, but not all of those postponements was from COVID patient care taking up staff and beds, much of it was based on state mandates suspending elective procedures/treatment. That IS a distinct difference. Heck, that is something that my dental profession spent multiple months trying to get clarification from my home state as to what exactly an emergency procedure vs what an elective procedure is... and we basically never got a straight answer until one random Friday afternoon in May of 2020 when my Governor in CT said that he actually never shut down dental offices, and most medical offices, which sure came as a surprise to so many of us

You are right Jeff. The health system didn't break at the height of the pandemic, but there certainly were pockets and individual institutions that did. I do know of at least three prominent metro NYC hospitals where my company added 75+ ICU beds a piece that did have to turn away patients. I'm certain other vendors experienced the same.

I can tell you that the third largest hospital in Boston ran out of vents and ended up having to use Anesthesia machines under EUA for patients and 80% of the Anesthesiologists in that hospital were playing Respiratory therapist for months. They were losing $300M a month at the height of things. I know that Mass General bought 90 vents from a company that never sold vents in this country before and ended up using almost all of them.

So, while yes you are correct, the health system held up, the impact of Covid was unprecedented in many areas and should not have been compared to smokers etc tying up resources like abc did.

 

[JimG.]

Well I've said it before, the "buy it asshole" method of marketing the vaccine will never work. People do not react positively to that approach and it is the main reason for the vaccine hesitancy we see. Our "leaders" are utterly flaccid! No idea how to market this to the general public.

Frankly it is disturbing to read some of the posts here and I've lost a lot of respect for some folks. I don't have time for selfishness and anger.

And the 15 minutes I've spent reading this nonsense makes me realize I was right about "normal" never coming back.

 

[JimG.]

Anyone else getting a pass to ski in VT this coming season?

 

[Edd]

I’m a pro-vaxxer, and what I think bothers people that think like I do, is that this was a crisis in which everyone was asked to help. Help themselves, pitch in for the common good, get as close to normal ASAP. It’s not risk free but it’s by far the best card to play.

Will you help?

Anti-vaxxers: No. I don’t care about others. Me, me, me.

FDA approval won’t move these ding-dongs an inch.

 

[KustyTheKlown]

they also have quite the venn diagram overlap with traitorous insurrectionists.

 

[Edd]

they also have quite the venn diagram overlap with traitorous insurrectionists.

Indeed, I wonder if they have similar news sources?

 

[skiur]

Anyone else getting a pass to ski in VT this coming season?

Just like I did last year.

 

[thebigo]

I do not want to get too into specifics in a public forum but the anecdote is apropos. Life long friend went out to the bar last week with a bunch of friends. All tested positive earlier this week. My friend is vaccinated but not in the best physical shape. He is at home and feels like hell but he is at home. Two fitness freaks in the group, not vaccinated, have both been hospitalized as of today. All same low risk age range, no preexisting conditions.

 

[Edd]

 

[fbrissette]

Anyone else getting a pass to ski in VT this coming season?

Got my Jay Peak pass, hoping that Science will finally win and that the US land border will open to the fully vaccinated, without the need for a COVID test prior to entering (US and Canada side).

 

[Dickc]

Anyone else getting a pass to ski in VT this coming season?

I have an Epic Northeast Senior pass. Will hit Okemo, Snow, and Stowe at least once each, maybe more. Have not been to Stowe for 45 years........

 

[BenedictGomez]

i completely disagree that putting up cost barriers to getting vaccinated will help more people get vaccinated. that's a pretty nutty theory.

Yes, truly one of the dumber things I've read on this website in a decade of reading dumb things on this website.

 

[BenedictGomez]

It's a tight labor market and the ones who pay up and create a good work culture are the ones who survive. The ones that close are the ones people dont want to work for and get no sympathy from me.

It's not that simple, especially for those competing against, "here's your free money", if that's the work sector your pulling from.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Got my Jay Peak pass, hoping that Science will finally win and that the US land border will open to the fully vaccinated, without the need for a COVID test prior to entering (US and Canada side).

Sorry, in America politics is in control, not science. I had my hopes previously, but I've given up on that ever changing.

 

[deadheadskier]

It's not that simple, especially for those competing against, "here's your free money", if that's the work sector your pulling from.

Are there people who normally worked restaurant and retail gigs who are taking advantage of the free money and will go back when the well dries?

Most certainly

But having worked in the business for close to 20 years throughout my adult life, (and I'm sure retail is similar) many who took pride in busting ass and not ever wanting a handout simply realized through the shutdowns that the work / life balance in that business sucks. They got sucked in when they were young and didn't care so much about that stuff and never got out.

Something like 15 years of my life, I didn't know what day or hopefully two days off the next week Id have until 5PM on Friday. Mandatory holiday shifts. No PTO or sick time unless you were a manager.

I've got a lot of old friends who used to make $60-75k a year either serving, bartending or managing kitchens who have settled into other jobs that maybe pay a little less, but they get 52 weekends off a year and better benefits.

So, what snoseek is really saying is this whole Covid thing has really shined a light on businesses that treated their employees like dog shit. It's the ones that have always and continue to value their workers who are shining right now. The ones who ran like a sweat shop got killed off.

We will see how long it lasts, but hopefully it does because the workers deserve better. Likely how is if restaurants charge a whole lot more money for their services. Americans need to appreciate and pay a helluva a lot more for prepared food, so the employers can better compensate their workers.

 

[JimG.]

I’m a pro-vaxxer, and what I think bothers people that think like I do, is that this was a crisis in which everyone was asked to help. Help themselves, pitch in for the common good, get as close to normal ASAP. It’s not risk free but it’s by far the best card to play.

Will you help?

Anti-vaxxers: No. I don’t care about others. Me, me, me.

FDA approval won’t move these ding-dongs an inch.

Anti-vaxxers are but a small subset of the vaccine hesitant. Please stop treating those who don't want to be vaccinated as a monolith of anti-vax forever Trumpers. That just isn't the case. Remember there is a large subset of unvaccinated folks who can't be vaccinated whether due to pre-existing conditions or age (under 12).

Vilifying those who are not vaccinated will not do anything to convince them to get vaccinated and in fact further hardens their resolve. Just because you have no fear of the vaccines because you want to get back to your "normal" life does nothing to allay the fears of someone who is genuinely afraid. Calling them uncooperative and selfish Trump lovers does nothing to resolve our current situation and in fact will just prolong the crisis.

Instead of talking down to the vaccine hesitant and ragging on them as a group maybe try talking to such a person and understanding their position. That's how you show genuine concern and promote the fact that opinions can be changed. We used to do that in this country.

EDIT: I'm fully vaccinated. I am neither pro nor anti vax. I got the shots to:

1) shut people up about whether or not I am vaccinated and why.
2) because my youngest son has to be vaccinated to return to college. Since he really has no choice (please don't say he does because he could go to another school, that's stupid) I felt it was important for me to also go through that process with him.