Vermont Skier Visits Down Significantly Due to COVID-19

[icecoast1]

What was the motivation?

Preference of policies over one administration over the other. Or to put it simply, more money in their pockets.


Also pretty interesting to see what comes up in the google search feed when to type pfizer and lying... but yeah, these are great corporations with steller track records

 

[deadheadskier]

The drug manufacturers dont have that say.

If there was funny business in delaying the results to help Biden win, it would have been a decision made by a handful of people running that specific DSMB, not the choice of pharma. That's what the 2 of you dont understand.

I understand that completely.

Silicone is the one suggesting a conspiracy between Pfizer and the government with political motives

 

[Not Sure]

I understand that completely.

Silicone is the one suggesting a conspiracy between Pfizer and the government with political motives

Too much of a tangent. Let’s return to regularly scheduled programming.

 

[Dickc]

12/18/20 Phizer “ We have millions of doses ready” Amazing a month earlier silence?
Ok

I recall that these companies were sure enough of the vaccine, that with government money flowing, they started production early so once approval was received they would have vaccine for immediate shipment. This was based on them knowing it was needed ASAP, so they were willing to spend a few million up front to get a jump.

I am also sure they profited pretty well from it too!

 

[abc]

12/18/20 Phizer “ We have millions of doses ready” Amazing a month earlier silence?

How long does it take to produce a million doses?

If you care enough to pay attention, you would have known!

Thanks to our then president Trump, he made one of his best decision of his entire presidency. He offer money to the drug companies to PRODUCE the vaccines PRIOR to them getting approved!

So by the time the vaccines got approved in November, there's already millions of vaccines produced, waiting to be shipped!

Had the vaccine not been approved, they would have been thrown away as garbage. But the drug companies were not losing money, as the tax payers are paying for the production of those pre-approved vaccines.

If you want to play in a conspiracy game, you need to play it from the beginning, not pick and choose one moment in time. Or you lose the plot.

 

[Harvey]

Thanks to the US taxpayers too.

 

[Not Sure]

Thanks to our then president Trump, he made one of his best decision of his entire presidency. He offer money to the drug companies to PRODUCE the vaccines PRIOR to them getting approved!

A compliment LOL .....I'm getting my skis out again it's going to snow.

 

[abc]

Sometimes it snows in August!

Rare as it maybe, history will confirm it's one of the most brilliant decision of any president could have made! Look around, how many country had better vaccination number?

Sadly, his own extreme selfishness prevented him from taking credit of it, as he perceive it didn't benefit him. He didn't even want his followers to know he himself took the vaccine!

So much for conspiracy... reality is a whole lot simpler!

 

[deadheadskier]

Pre-purchasing doses = excellent and praise worthy planning

Having no robust distribution and administration strategy in place for those doses and achieving less than 10% of his stated goal = horrible planning.

Simple reality

 

[abc]

Pre-purchasing doses = excellent and praise worthy planning

Having no robust distribution and administration strategy in place for those doses and achieving less than 10% of his stated goal = horrible planning.

Simple reality

It was a wild bet. And it paid out fantastically. Like it or not, mistakes causing delay in initial roll out was to be expected. There's a famous saying in the military: "few action plans survive first contact".

Don't forget, people were super skeptical about the vaccine itself, especially the safety aspect. The 1st target group, healthcare workers, were specially reluctant. Whilst the seniors were far more willing. So the initial delay was followed by huge demand of seniors (and even non-seniors) clamoring to suck up every single dose of vaccine produced!

Moreover, without those millions pre-produced vaccines to expose the shortcoming of the distribution and administration strategy, we would have been even further behind on the overall vaccination process of the full population.

There's plenty of mistake to spread the blame around. But amidst all the gloom, there were a few bright spots. Vaccine production was one of them. We all know we need to learn from our mistakes. But we should also learn from our success too.

 

[deadheadskier]

I acknowledged the bright spot by agreeing with you on the buying gamble

But one guy set a goal of 20M shots in arms by the end of 2020 and achieved less than 2M

The next guy said 100M shots in 100 days and achieved 200M

That's the reality

And I think your healthcare worker reluctance is overstated. I probably visit 60 different hospitals a month for work meeting with C Suite personnel. The topic of vaccines pretty much always comes up. One of my customers actually offered me mine because I spend so much time in their ORs. Sped up my timeline by two months vs waiting for my state to grant me permission. Pretty much every CNO, Anesthesia Chief etc I have spoken with has stated the take rate from patient care personnel was near 100%. And accomplished by the end of February. It's one thing for folks removed from the day to day care of Covid patients to be skeptical of a fast released vaccine, but for the many I work with who had been seeing many of their patients die from it daily? Their sleeves were rolled up right away

 

[abc]

Pretty much every CNO, Anesthesia Chief etc I have spoken with has stated the take rate from patient care personnel was near 100%.

That's not what I heard from doctors physical therapists I visited. Several (therapist) asked ME about it upon learning I've already gotten mine.

All said about 1/3 of the healthcare worker failed to get their jab, even though they can get one any moment they decided to do so.

 

[deadheadskier]

YMMV

All I can report on is the critical care spaces I work in. Folks well exposed to how awful Covid has been. In those areas the take rate is extremely high in my experience and almost all of those places are mandating a Covid vaccine just like they always have with the flu shot. Pre-Covid almost all of these facilities had that policy with the flu. Either you got a flu shot or if you objected you were required to wear a mask November through April. Same policy will now apply to Covid.

 

[abc]

But one guy set a goal of 20M shots in arms by the end of 2020 and achieved less than 2M

The next guy said 100M shots in 100 days and achieved 200M

I think there's a danger in taking such a short term view.

12 years ago, Obama took over an economy on the verge of collapse. He worked his butt off to keep it from collapsing. At the end of that 8 years, we had a healthy economy with a nice healthy GDP growth.

Another guy inherited that and the economy grow even more. And he's not shy to take credit for the "success" by implying it's all of HIS doing!

The previous president made a bunch of random decisions. Some proved to be near genius, some disastrous. Such was the real picture, much to distaste of his supports and distractors alike.

 

[VTKilarney]

To be fair, the distribution mechanisms that got Biden to his goal were in place before he took office. Biden didn’t have to change anything.

 

[deadheadskier]

Source that all of the plans and mechanisms were in place for Biden and he didn't have to do anything?

If the distribution plans were in place and it was known that the roll out was going to be slow, then a reasonable expectation should have been set with the public. It wasn't

The fact is one guy over promised and massively under delivered on vaccine distribution. Doing too much of that tends to get you fired in the business world or cause you to lose an election in politics.

The other guy under promised and over delivered. That tends to get you promoted in the business world or help you win reelection in politics

 

[ScottySkis]

Source that all of the plans and mechanisms were in place for Biden and he didn't have to do anything?

If the distribution plans were in place and it was known that the roll out was going to be slow, then a reasonable expectation should have been set with the public. It wasn't

The fact is one guy over promised and massively under delivered on vaccine distribution. Doing too much of that tends to get you fired in the business world or cause you to lose an election in politics.

The other guy under promised and over delivered. That tends to get you promoted in the business world or help you win reelection in politics

I agree but to much politics here now

 

[cdskier]

Source that all of the plans and mechanisms were in place for Biden and he didn't have to do anything?

If the distribution plans were in place and it was known that the roll out was going to be slow, then a reasonable expectation should have been set with the public. It wasn't

The fact is one guy over promised and massively under delivered on vaccine distribution. Doing too much of that tends to get you fired in the business world or cause you to lose an election in politics.

The other guy under promised and over delivered. That tends to get you promoted in the business world or help you win reelection in politics

You give way too much credit/blame to the Feds for distribution. In reality, there's not a lot of involvement from the feds in distribution. McKesson was announced by the CDC back in August as handling distribution of the Moderna and JnJ vaccines in the US. This was hardly a surprise considering that McKesson already had an active contract with the CDC for a number of years that included a clause for pandemic distribution (they previously partnered with the CDC as well for H1N1 which was long before Trump came into the picture). Distribution of the Pfizer vaccine in the US is handled directly by Pfizer. The notion that Biden could have come in and told either McKesson or Pfizer how to more efficiently run vaccine distribution is unrealistic. The role of the federal government was to determine allocations and centralize ordering from every state (allocations are simple math and ordering was done using the CDC's existing vaccine ordering portal that was already being used by states anyway for ordering vaccines from the federal government). Other than McKesson and Pfizer having to scale up their own distribution capabilities, there wasn't exactly anything "new" created here.

The numbers of vaccinations in the US have little to do with distribution and far more to do simply with production and availability of the vaccines. I firmly believe that we'd be in the same spot with vaccinations no matter who was president at the end of 2020 or now.

As an example, it would have been hard for any president to meet a stated target when one of the two suppliers at the time ran into production delays and cut their worldwide production numbers for 2020 in half...

Supply-Chain Obstacles Led to Last Month’s Cut to Pfizer’s Covid-19 Vaccine-Rollout Target

Pfizer and partner BioNTech had hoped to roll out 100 million vaccines world-wide by the end of this year, a plan that was reduced to 50 million last month, highlighting the challenges drug makers face in rapidly building supply chains to meet the high demand.

www.wsj.com

 

[abc]

The numbers of vaccinations in the US have little to do with distribution and far more to do simply with production and availability of the vaccines. I firmly believe that we'd be in the same spot with vaccinations no matter who was president at the end of 2020 or now.

I'm not half as confident as you are on the last point.

At the end of December, it was pointed out only 10-20% of the vaccines already delivered to the various destination actually end up in people's arms! That however, changed significantly by end of February. It didn't "just happened" by itself.

There were various logistic issues pertaining to both the production and distribution (something as boring as containers for example) that were addressed in the background.

To say there's little the fed can do is equally naïve as attributing all the credit/blame to the president.

 

[JimG.]

I agree with Scotty.