VPR Reports on Tension Between Uphillers and Resorts

[thetrailboss]

An interesting segment to listen to. Take note that Killington is going to issue "hiking" season passes for locals and others wishing to hike up the mountain after hours.

http://digital.vpr.net/post/skinning-uphill-battle

 

[Terry]

Shawnee Peak just put in an uphill policy this past week. You will need an uphill pass, free to pass holders, and only use designated trails to climb. I'm ok with that because it is getting more popular and can be a definate hazard to snowmaking and grooming operations. Glad that they are still going to allow it.

 

[fbrissette]

Shawnee Peak just put in an uphill policy this past week. You will need an uphill pass, free to pass holders, and only use designated trails to climb. I'm ok with that because it is getting more popular and can be a definate hazard to snowmaking and grooming operations. Glad that they are still going to allow it.

That's a reasonable compromise.

 

[fbrissette]

I was thinking that another possibility would be to flag a trail in the woods, just outside of resort boundaries. it might not be possible for all resorts but it would completely get rid of all problems.

 

[Jonathan S.]

Take note that Killington is going to issue "hiking" season passes for locals and others wishing to hike up the mountain after hours.

This is a nice development for those who want to "uphill" at night, but for any other skinners, it is a total disaster: the largest ski resort in Eastern North America is restricting skinning to an area the equivalent of Wachusett in terms of vertical and skiable terrain. (And even flatter than Wachusett for pitch!)

 

[goldsbar]

Anytime I'm going uphill under my own power, it's to get away from as many people as possible. It's certainly not going to be on some groomed slope. No impact.

 

[Huck_It_Baby]

I was thinking that another possibility would be to flag a trail in the woods, just outside of resort boundaries. it might not be possible for all resorts but it would completely get rid of all problems.

This would be a perfect solution. You would think people would just default to this anyway.

 

[SkiFanE]

Although I don't like to hinder anyones enjoyment of snow...being the skier that tends to hug trail edges...where skinners like to go...I almost leveled two flying over a rise and boom...right there in front of me on snowshoes 2 people...wtf...luckily I barely dodged them. Early season...few trails open with snowmaking....I woulda been pissed as hell if they caused me an injury. So in one way I want to shake my head an go "can't you find something else to do?"! I know...skunk at that picnic...but as a skier and paying passholder...don't cause me headache or injury please...I was so pissed that day. But I also know lots of people that really enjoy it...so would hate to stop them...so it's a tough call IMO.

 

[bobbutts]

There's thousands of undeveloped mtns for walking up. People who want to walk up a maintained resort trail are looking for a different experience and shouldn't be too surprised about restrictions.

 

[jrmagic]

Regardless of how many non-resort areas there are that can be skinned, I'm all for uphill traffic but there needs to be some common sense employed. Last weekend at Magic there were plenty of folks skinning up however there was only one way down that was open. At one point there was a group of 8 skinning up and rather than single file they were 8 across on trick which left little room to go around them and they had the nerve to shoot me a look for getting a little close to them. Same day there was another couple of folks coming up Trick on the inside corner of the turn on lower trick which is completely blind from above. A kid made the turn and almost took them right out. I applaud Magic for their unrestricted policy however at times when only one way down is available I think they need to adjust it a bit and not allow them to head up on that trail and instead head up a different route.

 

[thetrailboss]

Here's Sugarbush's policy (since it was mentioned in the story): http://www.sugarbush.com/snow-trails-conditions/winter-trail-use-policy

It's pretty thorough.

 

[thetrailboss]

Regardless of how many non-resort areas there are that can be skinned, I'm all for uphill traffic but there needs to be some common sense employed. Last weekend at Magic there were plenty of folks skinning up however there was only one way down that was open. At one point there was a group of 8 skinning up and rather than single file they were 8 across on trick which left little room to go around them and they had the nerve to shoot me a look for getting a little close to them. Same day there was another couple of folks coming up Trick on the inside corner of the turn on lower trick which is completely blind from above. A kid made the turn and almost took them right out. I applaud Magic for their unrestricted policy however at times when only one way down is available I think they need to adjust it a bit and not allow them to head up on that trail and instead head up a different route.

Hence why some resorts are wary of uphill travel.

 

[drjeff]

There has been a significant up tick in uphill traffic at Mount Snow this season - they have a policy in place where you need to register with skier services and get a pass and sign a liability waiver and agree to the terms (staying to the side, stay away from running snow guns/snow cats/ etc) and I believe the pass has a 1 time fee for the season of either $10 or $25.

The "hardcore" skinners don't seem to be the problem in terms of being aware of their visibility to downhill traffic, etc. Last week in particular when there was a significant amount of "beginner" skinners I personally witnessed more than a few close calls where the skinners chose a narrow open trail over say an adjacent, closed but still snow covered trail and/or some blind spot issues over ridges/knolls, etc.

Just hope that we don't hear of any collisions that result in legal matters

Sent from my DROID RAZR using AlpineZone mobile app

 

[thetrailboss]

I'm a bit sympathetic to resort management because this is a potential liability problem if someone is hurt afterhours, collides with equipment, or causes traffic problems.

 

[fbrissette]

At The Outdoor Gear Exchange, a Burlington retailer that specializes in backcountry ski equipment, buyer Joshua Stephens says they sell more than a thousand pairs of climbing skins a season. And he says that number grows every year.

This is the part that really struck me. The problem is not going away.

I fail to understand why anyone would want to skin up during operating hours. It is not fun, it is dangerous and an accident waiting to happen. I do skin in the wild but i also skin up ski trails for two reasons:

- during windholds to access good runs;
- early in the morning, for training, but mostly to get first access to new snow. Any significant amount of new snow and you'll see me bright and early.

Early morning skin up can indeed be dangerous. Even with a headlamp, i don't expect snowcat or ski doo operators to see me. As far as possible I stick to the woods, then to ungroomed trails and hug the woods real close when no other possibility exists. One morning last year, I spotted 15 skiers skinning up prior to opening. Jay Peak has no uphill policy as far as I know.

I do think there should be a designated way up outside of operating hours and I do think that skinning up ski trails during operating hours should be forbidden.

Skinning up ski trails outside of operating hours makes sense if you are a poacher cause it is the fastest way to the goods. I fail to see any good reason for skinning up ski trails during operation hours.

 

[AdironRider]

This is the part that really struck me. The problem is not going away.

I fail to understand why anyone would want to skin up during operating hours. It is not fun, it is dangerous and an accident waiting to happen. I do skin in the wild but i also skin up ski trails for two reasons:

- during windholds to access good runs;
- early in the morning, for training, but mostly to get first access to new snow. Any significant amount of new snow and you'll see me bright and early.

Early morning skin up can indeed be dangerous. Even with a headlamp, i don't expect snowcat or ski doo operators to see me. As far as possible I stick to the woods, then to ungroomed trails and hug the woods real close when no other possibility exists. One morning last year, I spotted 15 skiers skinning up prior to opening. Jay Peak has no uphill policy as far as I know.

I do think there should be a designated way up outside of operating hours and I do think that skinning up ski trails during operating hours should be forbidden.

Skinning up ski trails outside of operating hours makes sense if you are a poacher cause it is the fastest way to the goods. I fail to see any good reason for skinning up ski trails during operation hours.

The people who choose to skin up a ski area are usually the types who like to brag about themselves, often loudly.

You know how they say the best skiers are humble and don't talk about their skiing, yeah not them.

 

[thetrailboss]

The people who choose to skin up a ski area are usually the types who like to brag about themselves, often loudly.

You know how they say the best skiers are humble and don't talk about their skiing, yeah not them.

+1

 

[Jonathan S.]

Jay Peak has no uphill policy as far as I know.

And now you can know:
http://www.ussma.org/resort-uphill-policies

 

[Jonathan S.]

Here's Sugarbush's policy (since it was mentioned in the story): http://www.sugarbush.com/snow-trails-conditions/winter-trail-use-policy

It's pretty thorough.

Yes, thorough, as in thoroughly ... prohibitive.

Only three bullet points pertain to skinning, and each one essentially says NO:

Winter Uphill Travel Policy

• Uphill travel is provided to ticket - or pass-holders in order to access open areas during operating hours.
• Uphill travel is provided via the lift system, except under special circumstances (i.e. lift mechanical failure or weather hold, or special events) when uphill travel may be provided by vehicles or by hiking or skinning.
• Hiking or skinning on designated trails is only permitted when specifically authorized by the Resort (these routes are only open when the weather and conditions permit). Unauthorized uphill travel inside or outside of daily winter operating hours is prohibited.

 

[billski]

T

I do think there should be a designated way up outside of operating hours and I do think that skinning up ski trails during operating hours should be forbidden.

The ski runs on Mt. Greylock in Mass. were designed by the CCC in the 30's. Since uphill transport was by hiking/skinning only (both then and now), the CCC built a second trail strictly for uphill use. It does double duty as a hiking trail in the summer. What an idea!