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Waterville Valley Real Estate

eclaire

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Although Waterville Valley isn't the most challenging mountain to ski, the area is convenient for us and we're considering purchasing a condo in the Valley. We have some history there and coupled with aging parents in the area we plan on spending more time up there in the coming years.

This will be a long-term investment for us so on the one hand I'm not too worried about losing money in the short term because we'll hold on to the property for at least 5-10 years, but I am concerned about what's happening at the mountain and I'm wondering if anyone has information on the new ownership and plans for the future. Have they been successful so far and will they stick around?

I was very happy when Sununu's group bought WV from Booth Creek. I worked for WV in the late 80's when Tom Corcoran owned the mountain and I think that local ownership there is important. I was also really happy to see that Tom Gross and Bob Fries were involved as they brought experience and consistency to the company and I also believe that both of them really care about Waterville Valley. Sununu talks about sustained growth and if they continue with the Green Peak expansion I think that's a good thing for the company and for the valley.

But there are a number of red flags, too. There's no crystal ball but what happens if Sununu runs for governor? Why did Bob Fries leave the company? Is it a sign of trouble?

More importantly, what's going on with the various condo associations after the Stone property management folks stole all that money? Are some associations struggling to maintain the properties and deferring maintenance? Are the owners being charged additional fees? I would hate to buy a condo and then see a steady decline in the value of the property because of this. There seem to be a lot of condos for sale now. Is this normal or are people jumping ship?

Like I said, this is more of a lifestyle decision than a straight investment but then again we don't want to make a bad decision. It seems that if the new ownership follow through with the development that has been proposed that there could be a long-overdue renaissance in the valley and buying now could be a good financial decision. On the other hand, if they don't improve the facilities and reputation of the mountain in the next couple of years an investment there could be a big mistake. Coupled with whatever risk we're taking with the property associations, well, I'm a little gun-shy.

I haven't posted here in years but I do lurk often and I'd really appreciate opinions from anyone (especially home owners) who has information on the company and the valley.

Thanks,
Claire
 

4aprice

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Wish I knew more about the NH real estate market to be of help, but I don't. As far as Waterville itself, I've always liked the place even if its not the "most challenging". Seems to me it would be a pretty good place to locate with plenty of options around (and even a multi-area pass) should you find your self bored. Never been over to the village though.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ
 

yeggous

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I don't think you'll find much familiarity with Waterville here. I consider WV to be unique among NH ski areas. It is really the only area with a strong condo culture like you'll find at most Vermont mountains. Attitash and Black have a very small number of condos, but nothing like WV.

They seem to attract a lot of families who are looking for a self-contained weekend condo that is an easy drive to the Boston area. Those families seem very happy there, largely because it provides a that self-contained community that they know well. You've got to love the valley and the selection it provides, because it is a production to go anywhere else from there. Those looking for a more year-round option, with more to do in the general area tend end up in North Conway or to a lesser degree Lincoln.

I really don't know of WV's long term plans are. I rarely ever go there because it can get long lines and is so far removed from the other areas in the region.
 

dlague

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It all depends on the size and age of the unit you are interested in. I have seen some condos for not too much money and others that are crazy prices. But there is nothing at the mountain or the access road.


.......
 

Tin

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I'm curious about this. They have expansion plans, proposed the village gondi, etc. I'm surprised people have not come in and tried to do the same thing Jay Peak did and make it a great year round place. Do they still have tons of hockey tournaments?
 

Bkroon9175

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I own a small condo in Black Bear Lodge in Waterville. It has certainly suited our purpose and are considering buying a second in the facility. My family has found the village convenient and when my kids were in their early teens , you could let them wander around and not worry. Now they go to the bars. Although WV can be rather boring at times, we have found ways to combat that. We generally ski somewhere else on Saturday and then ski WV on Sunday. This pattern breaks up the WV sameness. WV is easy to get to and from there you can ski Pats Peak, Ragged, Gunstock on the way to WV and Loon and Cannon from WV. So it does have some flexibility
 

deadheadskier

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Have the Sununu's sold the place yet? I don't believe I've heard so.

Any rumblings in the Valley of potential buyers? I maintain the thought that Waterville with it's development potential would be a perfect play for Vail to get in the NE market.
 

machski

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Doubt Vail would want it. Too hard/impossible to expand to good terrain with WMNF right there (it only took Loon what, almost 3 decades to get to South and is half the original plan now). No, Sununu's still own it.
 

deadheadskier

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Thought they already had permitting in place for considerable development on Green Peak?

I would think with that, they'd also have potential for more real estate development.

You combine those two factors and the proximity of the resort to Boston and how they could use WV as a spring board to get folks out west on the Epic pass and I think there's potential there. Hell, I bet people would buy an Epic pass at Waterville even it wasn't their home mountain and they only skied there a handful of days a year. The way that pass is priced, you need to make it out West for 8 days or so to pay for it. So, two trips for most people. However, you use it 5 days at Waterville and it makes a lot of sense because you'd only need to take one vacation out west to make the financials match up.
 

Smellytele

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While people say it is close to Boston. It actually takes the same time to get to Lincoln where there is a lot more to do. That road off the Highway sucks up time. Lincoln has better access to more bars, restaurants, shopping, off ski season activities and more ski areas.
 

machski

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Yes they do have permits for Green from current base and terrain facing Sunnyside. They get that, but I wouldn't call any of it very interesting. The only black terrain you'll get from that would be tight glades, its intermediate at best. The terrain off the other side to the village is not permitted at this point. Not sure on the pitches there, but that would be low elevation (IE snowmaking intensive). The goods are off true Tecumseh peak and over to lookers right. But that area has been dropped from consideration at this point due to WMNF lands. Perhaps deep pocketed VR could try to move mountains to get that.

As for the original question, I know many families when I grew up loved Waterville because it was small, quaint and self contained. That hasn't changed and I think the Sununu's have brought at least some visibility and pedigree back to the mountain. I believe they are seeking capital partners before breaking ground on Green. Waterville has some issues with size, being squeezed from the south by Sunapee and Ragged and North by the 3 other larger 93 areas. Whether it can hold a nitch and prosper remains to be seen.
Thought they already had permitting in place for considerable development on Green Peak?

I would think with that, they'd also have potential for more real estate development.

You combine those two factors and the proximity of the resort to Boston and how they could use WV as a spring board to get folks out west on the Epic pass and I think there's potential there. Hell, I bet people would buy an Epic pass at Waterville even it wasn't their home mountain and they only skied there a handful of days a year. The way that pass is priced, you need to make it out West for 8 days or so to pay for it. So, two trips for most people. However, you use it 5 days at Waterville and it makes a lot of sense because you'd only need to take one vacation out west to make the financials match up.
 

NHNative

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Claire, my family has owned multiple properties in Waterville Valley since the 70s and I have lived around here for nearing on four decades. Although I think your concern about the future of the ski area ownership/future of the mountain is understandable, I don't think it should negatively impact your decision whether to buy in the valley. Waterville Valley real estate values have risen and fallen like the national market, but not to the extremes that we've seen elsewhere in New England and in the country as a whole. I think that proves that the people who own and are buying here have confidence in their real estate investment AND the community as a whole despite the latest rumors about the ski area. I know the ski area is a very important amenity, but the valley is much more than just the skiing operation on Mt. Tecumseh. Of course, if skiing is the sole reason you choose to visit or own in Waterville Valley, then maybe it IS worth more analysis. Regardless of the rumors that are ALWAYS flying about the ski area, I don't think the ski area is going to go away - whether it's the Sununu family at the helm or some other entity. There's no doubt that owning and operating a ski area becomes more financially challenging with each passing year.

Regarding the Stone Property Management situation, everyone is very disappointed that there haven't been any charges filed against the alleged perpetrator(s), but no one is jumping ship, all of the associations/owners survived the thefts, many recouped money through insurance claims and bank settlements, associations are still finding their feet with regards to how and who they want to manage their properties, but nothing is falling apart, going bankrupt, or having to charge exorbitant fees to make-up for the stolen money. I think what was most damaging was the loss of trust, not so much the loss of money. Everyone became complacent and comfortable, and some sociopath(s) took advantage of that. The bottom line is that the condo association boards are paying much closer attention to their finances and that's a good thing.

As you're considering whether to buy, your best bet is to talk to any of the realtors in Waterville Valley. They are all very experienced, knowledgeable and honest. They'll be able to share condo association meeting minutes and financials with you and provide you with comparative market analysis (or whatever it's called) to help you find the right place at the right price for you.

All towns have their plusses and minuses. Waterville Valley may not have the perfect ski area, but the rest of the town is pretty darn nice and so are the people who live and visit here. I can't see myself anyplace else.
 

NHNative

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P.S. I think there will ALWAYS be rumblings about the ski area being for sale. Heck, EVERYTHING is for sale for the right price, right?!
 

bobbutts

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I'd think it's fairly stable as far as ski areas go. They are close to Boston, so there's always an audience. If one ownership group fails, someone else will take it. It doesn't have a scary history or real red flags like most of the NELSAP areas prior to their demises. I'd assume the housing prices there will do whatever the market does rather than have a ski area news induced boom or bust. I'm no authority though, and never owned there or at any resort.
 

Edd

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All towns have their plusses and minuses. Waterville Valley may not have the perfect ski area, but the rest of the town is pretty darn nice and so are the people who live and visit here. I can't see myself anyplace else.

I've only been to WV once to ski on a Saturday several years ago. I've wondered how lively the town is. What's there for nightlife? Is there a decent grocery store? I took a cruise through there and noticed very little.
 

yeggous

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I've only been to WV once to ski on a Saturday several years ago. I've wondered how lively the town is. What's there for nightlife? Is there a decent grocery store? I took a cruise through there and noticed very little.

The only time I stayed there was for a week during the summer for a conference. It was dead quiet. We got kicked out of the bar around 9-10pm every night because we were the only ones there.


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Edd

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The only time I stayed there was for a week during the summer for a conference. It was dead quiet. We got kicked out of the bar around 9-10pm every night because we were the only ones there.


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Is this the bar on the hill or is there one in town near the homes?
 

Smellytele

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In the "village" there is a pizza place(no booze), a sports bar/restaurant (not bad but not great) and a restaurant(over priced so so food). Also there is another restaurant at the sports center(well over priced better food).
 

yeggous

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In the "village" there is a pizza place(no booze), a sports bar/restaurant (not bad but not great) and a restaurant(over priced so so food). Also there is another restaurant at the sports center(well over priced better food).

Yeah, we went to the sports bar. It seemed to literally be THE bar in town. It was also the first conference that I have ever attended where all meals were included because there just weren't sufficient options to go out around town.
 
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