Whaleback Mountain to cease operations

[Nick]

Via their Facebook page:

Dear Whaleriders;

Thanks to you and your support Whaleback Mountain is an incredible resource for this community. It is also one that has been a great joy to be a part of. In the local paper there will be news about the mountain’s future, and we want to try to let you know what is happening.

It is with deep regret that Frank, Dylan and I, owners and managing members, inform you that we have no option but to close our business. We sincerely hope that our departure is not the end of skiing and riding at Whaleback. On the contrary, we believe that this is an opportunity for the community to Save the Whale and continue to maintain this beloved place. We strongly believe that Whaleback could be a sustainable and vital resource with appropriate funding and leadership, especially after our 8 years of developing strong programs and relationships. It would be a tremendous loss to this region and the industry if Whaleback closes for good.

Currently, multiple schools and towns utilize Whaleback for after school ski and snowboard programs. Every Thursday Night 47 teams of 4 racers eagerly anticipate a night of racing under the lights. The Whaleback Core Team and Whaleback Mountain Club thrive with families who choose to spend their weekends and nights on the slopes here. Whaleback also has been a resource for Ford Sayre Ski Club, which utilizes our great terrain to train future stars of ski racing. Whaleback has become a favorite spot for people to host events of all types from weddings to skiing and snowboarding competitions to motor sports events.

Unfortunately, the positive gains that we have made over the years have not been enough to overcome our debt. We have tried numerous avenues to recapitalize the business to put ourselves on surer footing without success. Our only option at this point is to close. We thank you so much for your support and for believing in the value that our small mountain has for you, your friends and family. Needless to say, we believe in it too.

There have been many discussions and plans are emerging to raise money through a non-profit to purchase the mountain and continue operating. This is an option that many believe is the best hope for the future of Whaleback. If you would like to comment or contribute, please contact Frank directly (frank@whaleback.com). When this plan is ready to go live you will be among the first to know.

Finally, while this a certainly a bittersweet time for all of us, we want to relish the remainder of the season together. Please join us to say goodbye and to enjoy a few more runs down favorite trails as we all contemplate what this place means to us. For us it has been a big family that we will dearly miss.

Sincerely,
Evan, Dylan, and Frank

Saw this posted in the other thread as well but thought it deserved its own discussion. Unfortunately, I've never had the opportunity to ski Whaleback.

 

[4aprice]

Skied it in the late 70's when I was going to school up there. Was a home mountain for 3 years of my life. A fun kick ass little mountain with short trails but some good steep shots and good bumps on Face and Blowhole. Am I sad? absolutely, surprised? no. They had little snowmaking when I was there and I don't know what water source they have. Even so there just isn't enough skiing/boarding population in that area to support it. It's interesting, that I was reading an article that some of the small municiple ski areas were reopening or looking into it as a cheap alternative to the big resorts. (article was about Mt Eustis and Littleton, NH). Lebanon has such a place called Storrs Hill. Whaleback, I'll cherish the memories.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ

 

[Nick]

It will be interesting to see how it evolves. Before joining AlpineZone I never had spent much time thinking about ski area operations. But now I think about it a lot more.

I do wonder based on the few years I've been following the industry how this all plays out long term. It seems the "big resorts" grow and are fairly stable (the Killington, Sugarbush, Sugarloaf, Jay Peak, etc.). But the small ones struggle big time. They are mostly mom-and-pop ski areas.

You've got the co-op at MRG. Mountain Riders Alliance at Mt Abram. Volunteers and donations at Squaw. Co-op at Magic (I believe?).

How will all this work in the long-run? Is it truly sustainable? or is consolidation and reduction of ski areas inevitable?

Without looking at NELSAP stats I"m interested in what the #'s look like from a Number of Ski Areas perspective over time. I'd imagine that number is always shrinking. What is the "newest" ski area in the Northeast? i.e. a full area, not just a trail.

 

[yeggous]

What is the "newest" ski area in the Northeast? i.e. a full area, not just a trail.

Probably the reborn Crotched Mountain.

 

[Conrad]

What a loss this would be if they had to close and sell off all of the assets (i.e. chairlift). I've heard nothing but positive things about this place and have occasionally driven by the place on the way to Vermont. In hoping for the best, but preparing for the worst, if anyone is visiting there this weekend and wants to help out the French ski lift website remontees-mecaniques by photographing the lift, please let me know.

 

[Bostonian]

Like many others here, I have driven by it on the way back from VT. I can imagine the impact that this will have on the region. You figure you have the towns of Lebanon, Plainfield, Enfield, and Hanover within the immediate area of the ski area. While not the biggest place in the world, it certainly catered to the local community. it would be great it a coop stepped in to save the ski area.

 

[thetrailboss]

And I had just commented that it was great that they were able to make it, but it appears that they can't keep going. Too bad. They were doing a lot of good things.

 

[billski]

And once again, a new buyer purchases it at market value and, unless it has deep pockets (like Jay), incurs significant debt. I wonder if the town was giving them a tax break? That would have helps, though I don't know how much.

It's hard to fathom, but having skied at both areas and talked with both owners, Cochran's is "competition" which siphons off the young beginners with after school programs. Cochran's has stayed in the family and is most likely debt-free. If the Cochran family de-commits the future will be in jeopardy. Cochran's is also closer to Burlington and always has been super-busy when I've been there. Whaleback also get competition from Bolton; I see lots of day tripping families go to Bolton. so Whaleback is caught in a squeeze between big and small. If Whaleback was the only show in town, it might have worked. The niche it tried to fill was too narrow and make a profit.

Community areas, like Northeast slopes survive because it's town land and run by volunteers. The overhead is probably limited to the grooming, lift equipment and insurance based on what I saw, and the guys I talked to.

For those who have never been, here is your chance, right now to do it. No excuses! They are operating through the end of the season. See riverc0il's TR from a couple weeks back.

I feel the worst for the investors, Ivan in particular, a world-class racer with a dream. The effort they put into this must have been Herculean. Not sure co-op would work given the market squeeze. to see the facility dormant in the summer (save for paintball) was a problem. Deeper pockets invested in infrastructure for summer activities. No money to do that. Sad.

 

[4aprice]

Whaleback also get competition from Bolton; I see lots of day tripping families go to Bolton. so Whaleback is caught in a squeeze between big and small. If Whaleback was the only show in town, it might have worked. The niche it tried to fill was too narrow and make a profit.

Whaleback isn't that close to Bolton or Burlington. Its competition is Dartmouth, Sunapee, Ragged and the old Ascutney, but your point is well taken. Like I said Lebanon already has Storrs Hill as an intown cheap alternative. With the really big boys within easy drivable distance it really doesn't have much of a chance. (think King Ridge). A shame? yes but part of the evolution of our sport.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ

 

[thetrailboss]

I don't think that Cochran's or Bolton were in competition with Whaleback at all. They are quite far apart geographically. All three cater to largely local markets...and the Bolton/Cochran market in no way overlaps with Whaleback.

Whaleback was a local affair. Its main competition would have been Suicide Six, Ascutney, Dartmouth Ski Way, and maybe even Storr's Hill. Lots of kids and families who would stay local; but others would make the drive to Killington.

As someone who lived in the Upper Valley from 2005-2007, I can say that I did hear a lot about Whaleback...little or nothing about Ascutney. I never did manage to get to Whaleback because they just did not make much snow or have a long season at all. I did want to go nightskiing there, but never did.

I know that they were going after the freeskiing crowd and were doing a lot of park/skateboard stuff. They initially were going to build a huge building near the base for the indoor park...and they started...but ran out of money. Honestly they were relying on the bar to make the revenue for them.

 

[bobbutts]

They didn't get criticized much here because it's a small place run by a skiing icon with and old school natural vibe and good natural terrain. The snowmaking and grooming were not even close to competitive for the region. The lodge and food not good. Night lighting didn't work all that well, it was too dark to ski comfortably there at night. I'm sure there was more, I've only been a 5-10 times over the past several years. Fun place to go when there's good natural snow, but located where that's not very common. I think it's a tough one, because I'm not sure that spending a bunch of money on that stuff would have made it a success either.

In the end it stinks to lose another place where the price was reasonable and the skiing was good and uncrowded.

 

[dlague]

It's hard to fathom, but having skied at both areas and talked with both owners, Cochran's is "competition" which siphons off the young beginners with after school programs. Cochran's has stayed in the family and is most likely debt-free. If the Cochran family de-commits the future will be in jeopardy. Cochran's is also closer to Burlington and always has been super-busy when I've been there. Whaleback also get competition from Bolton; I see lots of day tripping families go to Bolton. so Whaleback is caught in a squeeze between big and small. If Whaleback was the only show in town, it might have worked. The niche it tried to fill was too narrow and make a profit.

Unfortunately I do not think Cochrans or Bolton Valey are the real competition. They are over an hour away. There are several nearby ski areas similar in size for example Dartmouth Skiway, Crotched, Pats Peak, Suicide Six and even Arrowhead in Claremont, all with in a 40-45 mile radius! In fact Dartmouth Skiway is 12 miles from Lebanon cost $5 more to ski at and is nearly three times the size with a beautiful base lodge. In any case, these are all small ski areas - most of them have strong local programs for racing, school programs, events - most are more full service places and they are all feeder ski/snowboard areas!

I have been to Whaleback once and it had an interesting vibe 70's like but these days services are key and without decent food and a full bar with entertainment - people lose interest. With one chair lift, it was a little problematic since it was slow and lift lines developed quickly. We gave our teenagers comp tickets to go there and they declined! It is sad to see a place like this go! I think if the lodge could have been spruced up and had better food bar service that might have helped a little more not to mention another lift option (but that is cost prohibitive). The perfect example of a well run ski area that is small is Pats Peak - that model needed to be established here!

If it somehow is revived, they need to get creative in terms of revenue generation!

 

[thetrailboss]

They didn't get criticized much here because it's a small place run by a skiing icon with and old school natural vibe and good natural terrain. The snowmaking and grooming were not even close to competitive for the region. The lodge and food not good. Night lighting didn't work all that well, it was too dark to ski comfortably there at night. I'm sure there was more, I've only been a 5-10 times over the past several years. Fun place to go when there's good natural snow, but located where that's not very common. I think it's a tough one, because I'm not sure that spending a bunch of money on that stuff would have made it a success either.

In the end it stinks to lose another place where the price was reasonable and the skiing was good and uncrowded.

I just don't think they ever had enough money to make it work.

 

[deadheadskier]

Damn

Feel kind of guilty not supporting Whaleback in recent years. I skied there in High School and really enjoyed it.

Hopefully it makes a come back. Going to take someone with deep pockets and a passion for the sport who isn't looking to make much money. The Upper Valley has approximately 100K people with a fairly high average income, but with so many other areas within an hour of there, it's tough to make things work.

One idea would be (and this doesn't work so well now that CNL owns it) to have Okemo/Sunapee buy it and use it as an inexpensive feeder / night skiing hill for their larger areas. If you could offer Whaleback on the same pass, you might get some night skiing business from the Sunapee skiers and less so Okemo skiers. Offer a Whaleback only pass for cheap to get people into the sport and maybe those newbies become future Sunapee/Okemo pass holders.

 

[riverc0il]

Damn. So Sad. I just skied there for the first time last Saturday (Whaleback is AWESOME!!) and I had an incredible day. It may be small at only 700 vertical but it skis bigger because it has legit steep and interesting terrain (Blow Hole, Face, Jawbone, and a few trees on and off map). I'd put trails like Blow Hole and Jawbone up against some of the best trails in New England, no joke. Very sad to see them close as I just discovered them and I was ready to patronize them yearly going forward.

But that is the big problem I think... so I many of us didn't ski there. They reopened many years ago but so few of us went there to experience the place. Whaleback's biggest challenge is lack of snowmaking, IMO. The Upper Valley is a giant dry slot for most storms. And Whaleback's best terrain is all natural. I waited all season for a good day to go there so I could ski their best terrain. Their best terrain just isn't open enough and without their double diamond rated terrain, there isn't enough there for a full day.

The community vibe runs very strong at the Whale. I really hope the mountain can be acquired by the town or operated by a non-profit community organization. The problem is that Whaleback's creditors are going to want to get paid and they aren't just going to give away the mountain for free. I can see the Whale making a community come back just like Squaw. But they would need to get the land leased for a $1 without taxes to make that work, like Squaw has for a deal. They seems unlikely.

 

[RISkier]

I'm not surprised. I wish places like this could thrive but I'm not surprised. We live live South. Wa is closest for a day trip and we can get to Berkshire East, Pats, Sunapee, and probably gunstocks faster. If you are a little Norath and or West you're an easy drive from much larger areas. A place like this really has to make it in a very local market. And I think that's really hard these days.

 

[jack97]

This blows. Like many, not surprise about the news. That place has had a string of bad luck, first year they re-open, their only chair lift was not working for start of the season and then their only groomer was out service. Then we had a series of lean snow years in NE which hurts them more given their lack of snowmaking.

I was talking about Crotched with my daughter, the only reason they could make it to 10 years was that they had financial security to install modern snowmaking, well maintained fleet of groomers and experience staff to keep the operation going. Right now, a ski area needs deep pockets just to compete.

I feel fortunate that I am within reasonable driving time to several small to med size areas that has the community vibe, akin to what I felt at Whaleback.

 

[medfordmike]

Damn. So Sad. I just skied there for the first time last Saturday (Whaleback is AWESOME!!) and I had an incredible day. It may be small at only 700 vertical but it skis bigger because it has legit steep and interesting terrain (Blow Hole, Face, Jawbone, and a few trees on and off map). I'd put trails like Blow Hole and Jawbone up against some of the best trails in New England, no joke. Very sad to see them close as I just discovered them and I was ready to patronize them yearly going forward.

I was sad to see the news but not surprised. I agree that Whaleback was underrated. The past two winters have not been kind. But three winters ago when it seemed like snow fell each week and stuck around I decided to give Whaleback a try. Got a great deal on Liftopia so went up not expecting much. I was really surprised. The terrain was a lot of fun and a lot more challenging than you would expect. I went a few times that winter. I had always been a big groomer guy but I really started to get into ungroomed/natural trails at Whaleback that winter. They will be missed but I am glad I stopped in a few years back, it really changed my perspective on skiing and for that I owe Whaleback a thank you.

 

[Smellytele]

I made it there for the first time this year with the family. It has great terrain as others have said. It was not a beginners area though which, while good for my family, was probably not good for the ski area in the location that it is. Even the top of the lift would be way to steep for beginners. I had a great time but feel a little guilty that I used free passes from MSC to ski there. It seemed they only had snow making on 1 or 2 trails and although I didn't ski at night the lighting looked inadequate. Sad to see it go.

 

[xwhaler]

Bump....there appears to be a grass roots campaign on Facebook called "Save the Whale" where they are taking donations. Goal is $100k by June which I'm guessing would pay off the outstanding tax bill.
They appear to just now be approaching $1k so very much a daunting climb ahead. If they appear that they are getting somewhat close I will prob make a donation. I 'liked' their FB page so can at least monitor how things are going.

My heart is hoping for the best but brain tells me we may have seen our last lift served turns at Whaleback for a while.