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What's the real reason some skiers hate moguls?

snoseek

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For the record I ski bumps much more out here then back in New England. Most areas groom a small percent of terrain. Most stuff off chair 4 (my fav) at Loveland starts as a field of powder and funnels down into bumps. Taos, Mary Jane, parts of Copper, and even Steamboat have definately made me a different skier. I used to just see them as something you had to put up with to get on the good terrain but am kind of having fun with them.

Oh, and deep powder and bumps are similar IMO as they will both bring out any flaws you may have. Just skiing groomers hides them pretty good.
 

snoseek

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yeah yeah ..I know it's wonderful out there right now ..

You will get yours-I would bet money on it. I know how good skiing in the East can be. The bad times make the good times even better



it has been pretty epic though
 

freezorburn

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Real Skiiers Love Moguls.

Mogul and Backcountry skiiers/Riders have the best skills then anyone on the mountain.
 

deadheadskier

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Ok back on topic .. I hate moguls for the same reason snowboarders sit down on the hill ..because we can..

Well that's unfortunate because in my opinion, you're making a decision to not have the opportunity to ride some of the best trails in New England. You'll never get to experience Goat, Rumble, Bubblecuffer and numerous other trails.

That in itself is honestly the only reason why I learned how to ski bumps. I can remember being 9 years old and in humiliation sliding on my ass the whole way down an ice mogul covered Double Diamond at Okemo in Vermont. At the time that trail and Outrage were probably the two 'toughest' trails on the mountain. Of course we skied Killington a fair bit back then too and all the talk was of Outer Limits being the toughest trail in the east. Maybe they did, but I don't ever recall seeing half of Outer Limits groomed like it is today.

So for me, it was matter of not wanting to limit where I could ski. I think everyone should aspire to learn them and be able to enjoy the entire mountain.
 

RISkier

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I haven't read all of this thread but my take is that skiing bumps exposes every technical flaw. Technical flaws just don't have the same adverse consequences on groomed trails. Indeed, related to the fast skiing thread, skiing fast on groomers can hide a lot of technical flaws. There are folks that muscle their way down bump runs without good technique. But if you don't have good technique you'll struggle in bumps. I don't think you can be a real expert skier if you can't ski bumps well. FWIW, I suck in bumps but feel it's the frontier where I need to try to improve.
 

KevinF

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You cannot fake technique. Not in powder, bumps or groomers. It’s easy to spot who skis well and who doesn’t.

Don’t you feel it’s a little self serving to write that fat skis help in powder, shaped skis help carving, but bump skis don’t really help that much at least in the beginning?

Just my $0.02 here. I agree that you can't fake technique; however, shaped skis have made it vastly easier to produce a carved turn. Is it a high quality carved turn? No. But that sensation that your skis will turn by themselves is much easier to come by then it was 15 years ago.

Likewise with mega-fat powder skis. Get on those and you can easily ski deep powder. Are they skiing it well? No, but they do get to experience powder skiing, an experience that 15 years ago required a LOT of skill to appreciate.

But put somebody on bump skis, and they'll look just as helpless in bumps as they do on any other pair of skis (unless they can honest-to-God ski).

Learning to ski well -- whether it be carving, bumps or powder -- takes some serious dedication, and I doubt anybody that dedicated is ever "pleased" with how they're skiing. Experiencing a carved turn or a powder run is now in the reach of anybody with a credit card.

But to ski a bump run in even a semi-controlled fashion (in whatever style you choose, world cup, PSIA, etc) takes a serious willingness to get a mouthful of snow countless times. No ski is going to shorten the learning curve for you. You can get all the instruction you want; the basic fundamentals of bump skiing aren't that hard to explain. You're still going to have to go out there and get slammed time and time again before you "get it".

And in a world where most people get out on snow maybe 5 or 6 times a year -- well, they're never going to "get it" when it comes to bump skiing.
 

Greg

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Just my $0.02 here. I agree that you can't fake technique; however, shaped skis have made it vastly easier to produce a carved turn. Is it a high quality carved turn? No. But that sensation that your skis will turn by themselves is much easier to come by then it was 15 years ago.

Likewise with mega-fat powder skis. Get on those and you can easily ski deep powder. Are they skiing it well? No, but they do get to experience powder skiing, an experience that 15 years ago required a LOT of skill to appreciate.

But put somebody on bump skis, and they'll look just as helpless in bumps as they do on any other pair of skis (unless they can honest-to-God ski).

Learning to ski well -- whether it be carving, bumps or powder -- takes some serious dedication, and I doubt anybody that dedicated is ever "pleased" with how they're skiing. Experiencing a carved turn or a powder run is now in the reach of anybody with a credit card.

But to ski a bump run in even a semi-controlled fashion (in whatever style you choose, world cup, PSIA, etc) takes a serious willingness to get a mouthful of snow countless times. No ski is going to shorten the learning curve for you. You can get all the instruction you want; the basic fundamentals of bump skiing aren't that hard to explain. You're still going to have to go out there and get slammed time and time again before you "get it".

And in a world where most people get out on snow maybe 5 or 6 times a year -- well, they're never going to "get it" when it comes to bump skiing.

Extremely well said!
 

Geoff

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+1

There are DEFINATELY days when I'm a firm believer in one of Warren Miller's classic lines (paraphrasing here) - Your knees only have so many moguls in their lifetime.

I skied my fair share of bumps in my teens/20's, so nowadays I generally choose to save the remaining bumps left in my knees for times like soft powder bumps(after the main trails and trees are tracked out) and spring bumps.

Personally though I think that many people hate bumps is because plain and simple there are way more bad bumps out there than good bumps, and for the average skier out there, that's not a fun thing

I've completely changed the way I ski bumps. In my 20's, I was a zipper line bumper at Killington. I'm now 50. I haven't had intact ACLs in many years. My knees are unstable if I extend completely. I have changed things so I round out my turns and keep the speed dialed back. I pick lines that completely avoid wall bumps and bumps where the back side has been traversed away. I'll often ski against the grain making turns on the spines. I still seek out ungroomed terrain and I get bored skiing groomers for more than a few hours but I don't consider myself to be a mogul skier.

I agree with the thought that there are now more bad bumps out there than good bumps. Short shaped skis and snowboards make for crap moguls. I was a bumper when everybody was on 200 cm skis and I was typically on 207 SL boards. Bumps were far less choppy then. You rarely saw the back sides traversed out. You had a lot less low skill people on them creating wall bumps.

I think the demand for groomed terrain is at least partly caused by the aging of the skiing population and the decline in overall fitness level of the average skier. With modern shaped skis, you can be really overweight and out of shape and still easily negotiate groomed eastern advanced terrain. When it bumps up, you have to actually work at it and a big slice of the skiing population simply isn't up to the task. There are also relatively few snowboarders who are proficient in the bumps.

Personally, I think steeps expose the flaws in your technique more than bumps. I'm talking about western steeps up over 40 degrees, not your typical eastern double black. Try dropping into windblown powder on something no-fall like what's now called Couloir Extreme at Blackcomb. If you're not centered or if you break at the waist, you have big problems. I see lots of people brute-forcing their way through the zipper line. If you have enough strength and quickness, you can function perfectly well in the zipper line even though your technique is a mess.

I learned to ski powder on skinny skis. I view powder boards as a huge improvement in technology. It's very much like tennis racquets where modern racquets have a huge sweet spot. With skinny skis, you had to be very precise about your balance point and you had to get the unweighting just right. With modern powder boards, you can just do a plain-vanilla shaped ski turn with minimal unweighting. Today, being a competent powder skier doesn't mean a heck of a lot since it's now so easy.
 

deadheadskier

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I agree with the thought that there are now more bad bumps out there than good bumps. Short shaped skis and snowboards make for crap moguls. I was a bumper when everybody was on 200 cm skis and I was typically on 207 SL boards. Bumps were far less choppy then. You rarely saw the back sides traversed out. You had a lot less low skill people on them creating wall bumps.

Me too, back in my day there were good bumps we walked three miles to the mountain through nine feet of snow uphill in both directions

....and we liked it ;)
 

ctenidae

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I don't hate bumps.
I hate bump skiers, those holier-than-thou acting, knee-replacement-surgery having, helmet needing, skirt-wearing nancy boys.
The only thing worse than a bump skier is a hippy telemarker.

Just kidding. Bumps are tough and make me sweat, and I don't feel confident in them. Which is why I still ski in them some, but also why I don't ski them more.
 

billski

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OK dumb question. Why don't I see boarders in bump runs? I see them handle natural bumps on trails just fine. Is board design or riding style just not conducive to bumps?
signed, joe skier.
 

orsonab

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Excuse my mogul-intimidated ignorance but I'm a recent convert to skiing. Ski instruction seems to place a lot of emphasis on extending the leg out on turns and carving with the ankles to really get the benefit of shaped skis. Mogul-skiing, however, seems to be only possible by keeping your knees together so its seems counter-intuitive to a newbie like myself. Also, all the mogul runs I've ever seen have been fairly long with no escape - pretty daunting for a beginner.

Also - I'm too old and lazy for that s%#t...:spin:
 

tekweezle

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fear of knee injury and slipping a ski having to put it back on in a weird position are my biggest fears.

being forced to turn before you want and not being able to control your speed. Most non mogul enthusiasts like to ski fast and turn when they want to. probably the same reason some people fear the boot deep chopped up crud just off the side of the trails.
 
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