Whats with all the hating on the freestyle community?

[AdironRider]

Just thought Id throw this out there as I feel like alot of people shun us youngun's and our freestyle ways. I dont want this to turn into a flame war so lets keep things civil. These are just my thoughts and Im interested to hear yours.

I dont understand why alot of people have so much animosity towards the freestyle progression of the sport of snowboarding and skiing respectively. I feel like this is extremely noticable in the snowbaording world. I myself am more freeride oriented, yet even when Im rocking carves down skyward at Whiteface, I occasionally get the type who just hates on boarders, or just tells me to hang in the park where I belong. Yet ski racer brats seem to have a free pass everytime they cut someone off or pull some stupid move on the hill. The argument that snowboarding also is detrimental to snow conditions is pretty bogus as well I feel, as I see just as many if not more skiers snowplowing down the mt as well in their pizzas, doing just as much damage to the snow.

In reality, freestyle has brought alot to the world of skiing. Id like to see where ski technology would be today if it werent for the development of snowboarding. Where would your shaped and fat skis be? Im not so sure itd be the same. Also, you cant argue that the freestyle industry has brought the sport of skiing and riding into the main stream. While this may result in more people on the hill at times, more people on the hill means more money, more money = more improvements, more improvements = more pleasure on the hill. I find it perplexing when places like Whiteface advertise themselves as a world cup caliber mt, spend hundreds of thousands building an olympic caliber pipe, that the majority or their clientel will never even see or use. Gore has gotten rid of their pipe completely, and some mts other terrain features are lacking .While Ive never been a park rat, there are ALOT of people who are. Take a place like Waterville for example, there is a place that knows how to handle things. Their park and the respective people who usually ride there are really good, yet do little to undermine the rest of the mt. Why more places have yet to grasp the freestyle community is beyond me.

Lets hear your thoughts, but please keep this civil, I just want to stimulate discussion.

 

[tree_skier]

To start with demographics. When we all just used 2 planks the youngsters were still cursed at a bit by older folks but it was harder to seperate the "trouble" from the "good" because they all had on the same gear, skied the same areas etc. Then along came snowboarding and most of the "trouble" moved to that gear. This made a visual seperation that the majority could say that that group was full of bad apples. Following this up with the development of the parks and then the "freeride" segement with the twin tips you have an easily identifiable segment that have a larger proportion of social/behavioral issues that upset a majority of the guests. Pre mid 80's this group was not as easily identifiable due to using the samegear as everyone else, but since the boom of snowboarding in the 90's when most of this group either switched or never skied you now can more easily identify that group.



Now on to the shaped ski statement. Shaped skiis were developed due to improvements in technology not the existance of snowboards. Just as you don't see many people skiing on snowboards from the 80's as new technology has made the newer models much better. new technology has made the newer skiis better also.

 

[dmc]

It's a question with no answer since i started riding in the late 80's.. Some people just hate snowboarders and will do whatever to diss us... Whatever.. I'll still fight the fight but I'm starting to lose my edge with age I think..
I also meet snowboarders that hate skiers too...

If someone starts into me on the hill - I just turn up the music!

 

[ctenidae]

The reason more mountains haven't "grasped the freestyle community" is actually pretty simple: Economics. They don't see the value. Consider:

1) The majority of freestylers, whether one plank or two, are young.
2) Young people don't have much money.
2a) Young broke folks don't spend money in lodges
2b) Young broke folks don't stay in on-mountain lodging
3) Ski areas make a higher profit margin on lodge sevices and lodging than on tickets
4) Old folks/family types are annoyed by young folks/freestylers (see tree_skier above)
4a) Family types will go where the freestylers aren't
5) Families spend gobs of cash on lodging and lodge services

 

[Phildozer]

My opinions are based on Wachusett Mountain conditions, since my schedule doesn't allow me much time to go other places....

My biggest issue with the snowboard/freeride community is the need to sit in the middle of trails in groups. Usually in blind/poorly lit areas. I know it is fun to hang out with friends but do it in the lodge or on the side of trails.

 

[skibum1321]

It depends on the mountain as to whether they do anything for the freestyle community. Most of the northern VT mtns are known for their backcountry skiing and glades. Therefore they focus on this more than their parks. On the other hand, southern areas have less of this and focus more on grooming and parks. Business is all about knowing your strengths and playing them up.

 

[dmc]

My opinions are based on Wachusett Mountain conditions, since my schedule doesn't allow me much time to go other places....

My biggest issue with the snowboard/freeride community is the need to sit in the middle of trails in groups. Usually in blind/poorly lit areas. I know it is fun to hang out with friends but do it in the lodge or on the side of trails.

NO!!!!! Keep the sides of the trails clear!!! Thats where the best snow is...

I HATE it when people block the sides of the trails...

 

[hammer]

Some people just hate snowboarders and will do whatever to diss us...

Is this really a snowboarder/skier discussion? I know that snowboarders are usually associated with the "freestyle community" but I'd guess that there are plenty of exceptions to the rule.

Any previous kidding aside, I don't have any problems with the "freestyle" folks as long as they are respectful of others on the slopes...

 

[Phildozer]

NO!!!!! Keep the sides of the trails clear!!! Thats where the best snow is...

Of course it is there thanks to the snowplows...eh..I mean snowboards.

 

[JimG.]

To start with demographics. When we all just used 2 planks the youngsters were still cursed at a bit by older folks but it was harder to seperate the "trouble" from the "good" because they all had on the same gear, skied the same areas etc. Then along came snowboarding and most of the "trouble" moved to that gear. This made a visual seperation that the majority could say that that group was full of bad apples. Following this up with the development of the parks and then the "freeride" segement with the twin tips you have an easily identifiable segment that have a larger proportion of social/behavioral issues that upset a majority of the guests. Pre mid 80's this group was not as easily identifiable due to using the samegear as everyone else, but since the boom of snowboarding in the 90's when most of this group either switched or never skied you now can more easily identify that group.



Now on to the shaped ski statement. Shaped skiis were developed due to improvements in technology not the existance of snowboards. Just as you don't see many people skiing on snowboards from the 80's as new technology has made the newer models much better. new technology has made the newer skiis better also.

I'm 48...I ski on twin tips, so going on the argument that we can identify trouble by what's on its' feet, I'm trouble. I guess I have social/behaviour issues too.

Sorry, don't buy that argument at all. I know plenty of snowboarders my age who aren't trouble, and I see plenty of skiers of all ages who are a handful of trouble. Trying to segment all problems based on equipment choices is outright discrimination. And lame.

And FWIW, snowboards are the main reason for the shaped ski revolution. Try asking a few ski manufacturer insiders who were part of the introduction phase and see if that isn't true. In fact, it was used as a selling point by ski reps in the mid-90's.

To address Adironrider's question, hate is irrational and usually indicates self-esteem issues on the part of the hater. But it's part of society...there are a-holes out there of all shapes, sizes, colors, and occupations. There's the same proportion of a-holes who either ski or snowboard as in the general populace...neither discipline has a monopoly on a-holes. I don't hate snowboarders, skiers, young or old, freeriders, park rats, or bloody beginners.

I don't care for a-holes though.

 

[Greg]

The reason more mountains haven't "grasped the freestyle community" is actually pretty simple: Economics. They don't see the value. Consider:

1) The majority of freestylers, whether one plank or two, are young.
2) Young people don't have much money.
2a) Young broke folks don't spend money in lodges
2b) Young broke folks don't stay in on-mountain lodging
3) Ski areas make a higher profit margin on lodge sevices and lodging than on tickets
4) Old folks/family types are annoyed by young folks/freestylers (see tree_skier above)
4a) Family types will go where the freestylers aren't
5) Families spend gobs of cash on lodging and lodge services

#5 of your argument completely negates #1 through #3. Terrain parks and such are HUGE draws for kids. Kids are brought to the mountain by their parents. The parents are the ones that spend the money (food, lodging, gear, etc.). Every major mountain has a terrain park and they're just getting bigger and more elaborate for exactly this reason. To attract the kids and their money-spending parents...

NO!!!!! Keep the sides of the trails clear!!! Thats where the best snow is...

I HATE it when people block the sides of the trails...

Right on, D!

 

[JimG.]

#5 of your argument completely negates #1 through #3. Terrain parks and such are HUGE draws for kids. Kids are brought to the mountain by their parents. The parents are the ones that spend the money (food, lodging, gear, etc.). Every major mountain has a terrain park and they're just getting bigger and more elaborate for exactly this reason. To attract the kids and their money-spending parents...

Very un-C10 like...you really did leave a wide opening for Greg to zing you with! Ski areas have certainly grasped the freeride concept and are milking it daily as Greg mentions.

 

[ALLSKIING]

NO!!!!! Keep the sides of the trails clear!!! Thats where the best snow is...

I HATE it when people block the sides of the trails...

Your right about the snow being the best on the sides...But thats the only place I feel safe stopping unless its midweek.

 

[Greg]

Very un-C10 like...you really did leave a wide opening for Greg to zing you with! Ski areas have certainly grasped the freeride concept and are milking it daily as Greg mentions.

I got him! I got him!

Woohoo! :lol::smash:

 

[AdironRider]

I'm 48...I ski on twin tips, so going on the argument that we can identify trouble by what's on its' feet, I'm trouble. I guess I have social/behaviour issues too.

Sorry, don't buy that argument at all. I know plenty of snowboarders my age who aren't trouble, and I see plenty of skiers of all ages who are a handful of trouble. Trying to segment all problems based on equipment choices is outright discrimination. And lame.

And FWIW, snowboards are the main reason for the shaped ski revolution. Try asking a few ski manufacturer insiders who were part of the introduction phase and see if that isn't true. In fact, it was used as a selling point by ski reps in the mid-90's.

To address Adironrider's question, hate is irrational and usually indicates self-esteem issues on the part of the hater. But it's part of society...there are a-holes out there of all shapes, sizes, colors, and occupations. There's the same proportion of a-holes who either ski or snowboard as in the general populace...neither discipline has a monopoly on a-holes. I don't hate snowboarders, skiers, young or old, freeriders, park rats, or bloody beginners.

I don't care for a-holes though.

You my friend, just became my new favorite person on this board.

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

Your right about the snow being the best on the sides...But thats the only place I feel safe stopping unless its midweek.

Yeah, sometimes people have to stop. Where should you, right in the middle where you're an easier target? If I need to stop it's off to the side. If I happen to be in a line someone wants to take for a minute...well, life sure sucks when everything isn't perfect all the time.

 

[Greg]

Yeah, sometimes people have to stop. Where should you, right in the middle where you're an easier target? If I need to stop it's off to the side. If I happen to be in a line someone wants to take for a minute...well, life sure sucks when everything isn't perfect all the time.

I usually stop on the sides, but not all the way over towards the trees. I usually leave one or two skier (or rider ) lines between me and the trees. Then the tree-huggers like myself can ski by. If I also notice someone coming down the sides while I'm stopped, I'll move.

 

[Vortex]

The bad apples are the loudest and most visable.

I think there are some negitive feeling towards some snow boarders. ( Vise versa is the case also.)

I admit I was one of them due to my ignorance years ago.

. I have listened to Doug and others and have learned more.

I see it more as an age thing than a preferance of the way down the hill. Exceptions are everywhere though.

I went by what I saw and heard. The lound banging of the boards in line. Once to get the snow off seems enough.

I saw more snow boarders cutting me off and many sitting in the middle of the hill.

I saw the negitives not the entire story.



I have a son and daughter that board and I support them. I have a son in a snowboard seasonal. A major reason was to teach him the things that were acceptable and safe.

The old versus new is relevant. I believe there are more new boarders coming into the market than skiers. Skiers are getting older as a group. Generation issues. These are just generalizations.


Best point of the day....
The younger crowd does not have the money. Money makes it go.

AdrionRider you represent yourself well as i stated in a pm. There are a large amount of good young folks on this board. Spread the good vibes on the hill.

 

[dmc]

Of course it is there thanks to the snowplows...eh..I mean snowboards.

Ummm.... OK Phil... Winkie eye aside...

Let me just say that snow has been piled up oin the side of the trails since before snowboarding was popular...

 

[Vortex]

Like Greg said I leave at least room for one skier to get behind me on the sides. I ski the sides myself.

I still think the point about the young crowd does not spend the money is excellent.

There are alot of yound pass holders/ticket purchasers that are not property owners or condo renters or hotel guest, whom are not there with the parents.

When I did the ski shows and my marketing trips this was certainally an issue we took into account.