when will killington be sold?

[JimG.]

I'll say this...just another classic Killington thread.

 

[campgottagopee]

Alright guys, so basically in reading through literally 130 posts the question I'm getting out of this is, some want GSS back and others do not.

Here's my general view of life. There are certain things that when done, don't deserve second chances, and there are others that are. I wasn't here for the whole GSS thing so I'm working on limited context, but there are a few things I feel fairly confident can be true:

1. Distance makes the heart grow fonder - it seems that GSS is certainly a martyr of sorts here. His banning and the time between that has turned him into a folklore sort of character. Which doesn't seem to mesh well with the negative side. IMO a good trip report, while everyone on the site benefits and appreciates it, isn't offset by (if I read correctly) spamming and flooding facebook pages of other members with out of line comments.

2. GSS had some redeeming qualities - OK, so he wrote great trip reports.... and he really loves skiing. That's awesome. I still don't think that redeems other comments. I heard and flipped through briefly the 9/11 comments. My wife lost one of her best friends on 9/11, and certain things like that just cross the line. Maybe it's personal for me because I knew someone; but I just don't think things like that deserve second chances.

I can think of all my friends, I had one in particular I was friends with in high school and for 2 years into college. It was an extremely stressful relationship for me. He was an awesome guy, but also would piss me off to no end. He would constantly use me and take advantage of me. Just when I would be ready to tell him to piss off, something redeeming would happen - a great conversation, a real momentary heart to heart conversation, or something else. Ultimately we got in a big fight and he kicked through a door in our apartment and we parted ways, and haven't talked since then. It's just not worth the roller coast ride in my opinon.

So here's my .02. I trust the mods here, and Greg as the previous owner, and I back them 100%. I've seen a lot of the moderated posts that show some of the things that GSS actually did and said, and it's ugly. I don't want to run an out of control forum. As others here have said, the banning policy here is pretty friggen lax. 2 members a year is hardly anything, and it requires constantly pushing and toeing the line.

It seems a bit like the Stanford Prison Experiment, there's like this perception somehow from the Pro GSS crowd its somehow Mods vs. Members but that is just competely ridiculous. We are all here because we love skiing and the mods and myself are here to help keep the conversation going about skiing in a reasonable fashion, and 99.99% of the time we act reasonably. Everyone F's up every once in a while, and that's cool, but we all do our best to get together and have great conversation about awesome stuff.

So anyway. Cliff notes for all you TL;DR's: I am not unbanning anyone.

Hope you guys understand. -Nick

I appreciate you takin ghte time to tellus your POV, and I respect what you've said. I only ask that YOU use YOUR judgement and not others with an axe to grind. That will only happen if you let him back in. Like HPD said, if he F's up again, gone for life. What the hell---give it a shot.

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

I disagree with your decision…I think you are being misled by the mods…I don’t see any harm to letting him back on a trial basis to see if he can contribute without offending, but I do appreciate you getting back to those of us who would like to have GSS reinstated.

The funny thing is I truly believe that GSS cared more about being on AZ than any other member. If I were banned for life I’d say FU…who cares…and move on. For whatever reason this place was important to him.

Nick if you ever mess up somewhere or with somebody that you care about, and want a chance to redeem yourself, I hope you get treated better then you’re treating him.

Alright guys, so basically in reading through literally 130 posts the question I'm getting out of this is, some want GSS back and others do not.

Here's my general view of life. There are certain things that when done, don't deserve second chances, and there are others that are. I wasn't here for the whole GSS thing so I'm working on limited context, but there are a few things I feel fairly confident can be true:

1. Distance makes the heart grow fonder - it seems that GSS is certainly a martyr of sorts here. His banning and the time between that has turned him into a folklore sort of character. Which doesn't seem to mesh well with the negative side. IMO a good trip report, while everyone on the site benefits and appreciates it, isn't offset by (if I read correctly) spamming and flooding facebook pages of other members with out of line comments.

2. GSS had some redeeming qualities - OK, so he wrote great trip reports.... and he really loves skiing. That's awesome. I still don't think that redeems other comments. I heard and flipped through briefly the 9/11 comments. My wife lost one of her best friends on 9/11, and certain things like that just cross the line. Maybe it's personal for me because I knew someone; but I just don't think things like that deserve second chances.

I can think of all my friends, I had one in particular I was friends with in high school and for 2 years into college. It was an extremely stressful relationship for me. He was an awesome guy, but also would piss me off to no end. He would constantly use me and take advantage of me. Just when I would be ready to tell him to piss off, something redeeming would happen - a great conversation, a real momentary heart to heart conversation, or something else. Ultimately we got in a big fight and he kicked through a door in our apartment and we parted ways, and haven't talked since then. It's just not worth the roller coast ride in my opinon.

So here's my .02. I trust the mods here, and Greg as the previous owner, and I back them 100%. I've seen a lot of the moderated posts that show some of the things that GSS actually did and said, and it's ugly. I don't want to run an out of control forum. As others here have said, the banning policy here is pretty friggen lax. 2 members a year is hardly anything, and it requires constantly pushing and toeing the line.

It seems a bit like the Stanford Prison Experiment, there's like this perception somehow from the Pro GSS crowd its somehow Mods vs. Members but that is just competely ridiculous. We are all here because we love skiing and the mods and myself are here to help keep the conversation going about skiing in a reasonable fashion, and 99.99% of the time we act reasonably. Everyone F's up every once in a while, and that's cool, but we all do our best to get together and have great conversation about awesome stuff.

So anyway. Cliff notes for all you TL;DR's: I am not unbanning anyone.

Hope you guys understand. -Nick

 

[Riverskier]

It seems a bit like the Stanford Prison Experiment, there's like this perception somehow from the Pro GSS crowd its somehow Mods vs. Members but that is just competely ridiculous.

I think in this case it kind of is. The vast majority of members enjoyed his contributions to the site and would love to see him return, while the mods seem to have a collective vendeta towards him. I just hope any of his posts you were shown were shown in context, or many of them could seem much worse than they actually are. Anyway, your site and your rules, and I appreciate the response. I especially appreciate how you responded to this topic in a respectful way without insulting any members like some of the other mods deemed necessary during this discussion.

 

[mondeo]

unneccessary roughness......

the dude doesnt even post here. :lol:

And most of the CT skiers enjoy skiing with him, including Greg. Just saying...

 

[2knees]

And most of the CT skiers enjoy skiing with him, including Greg. Just saying...

he always has kind bud.

 

[andyzee]

I think in this case it kind of is. The vast majority of members enjoyed his contributions to the site and would love to see him return, while the mods seem to have a collective vendeta towards him. I just hope any of his posts you were shown were shown in context, or many of them could seem much worse than they actually are. Anyway, your site and your rules, and I appreciate the response. I especially appreciate how you responded to this topic in a respectful way without insulting any members like some of the other mods deemed necessary during this discussion.

Very well phrased, +1

 

[Nick]

Like HPD said, if he F's up again, gone for life. What the hell---give it a shot.

I think the general point is is that that happened over and over again.

 

[Nick]

I think in this case it kind of is. The vast majority of members enjoyed his contributions to the site and would love to see him return, while the mods seem to have a collective vendeta towards him. I just hope any of his posts you were shown were shown in context, or many of them could seem much worse than they actually are. Anyway, your site and your rules, and I appreciate the response. I especially appreciate how you responded to this topic in a respectful way without insulting any members like some of the other mods deemed necessary during this discussion.

I don't necessarily agree with this. I think the supporters are more vocal, but it's only a handful who keep bringing up GSS. That vocality leads to a perception of majority, but I don't believe it's true.

it's important to remember that 99% of the people on this site (and I have gotten PM's from many, many of them) don't participate in these types of conversations. They post a few times in the Skiing of Equipment forum and ignore the politics, but privately I have had over a half dozen PM's from different people telling me reasons why they stopped posting on AZ.

In terms of the posts in context, as an admin I can see full history on everything, so it wasn't like things were cherry picked for me. I spent a long time reading threads, back and forth's, and so on. I'm certainly not dismissing the good GSS did, or negating that he contributed worthwhile posts. Only that life isn't a function of good acts countering your bad acts. Good should be unequivocal.

Also - I appreciate your ability to take what I'm saying as well and understand, even if you don't agree, with my point of view. None of us can expect to agree on everything, but ultimately a choice has to be made, and I've made it.

 

[Nick]

Nick if you ever mess up somewhere or with somebody that you care about, and want a chance to redeem yourself, I hope you get treated better then you’re treating him.

I think you give too much credit to call it a simple "mess up" and that he wasn't given multiple opportunities to shape up.

 

[Nick]

BTW: I sincerely appreciate the fairly even-keeled discussion we can have on the topic . Even if this is the wrong friggen thread for it. :dunce:

Sorry for the OT

 

[campgottagopee]

I think the general point is is that that happened over and over again.

No, it really didn't, well, not until it became personal then it was bad, but that's human nature. Again, you weren't around to see the "big picture" of GSS. Just give the kid a chance under YOUR reign, and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

 

[campgottagopee]

BTW: I sincerely appreciate the fairly even-keeled discussion we can have on the topic . Even if this is the wrong friggen thread for it. :dunce:

Sorry for the OT

Me too. Thanks for noting that.

 

[tjf67]

No, it really didn't, well, not until it became personal then it was bad, but that's human nature. Again, you weren't around to see the "big picture" of GSS. Just give the kid a chance under YOUR reign, and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Jesus do you want to have gay sex with the guy or something? GSS got banned cause he was not a CLIT its that simple.

 

[campgottagopee]

Look at it this way...

Say you let him back in and he's the big A-hole some people feel he is, you ban him and all of us "living in the past" shut up and eat crow. Done and over with.

You let him back in and he's a good contibutor to the site??? Well, you'll have 5000 more posts a day to try and get more $$$ with.

Win-win, no??

 

[campgottagopee]

Jesus do you want to have gay sex with the guy or something? GSS got banned cause he was not a CLIT its that simple.

No and No...who the hell wants to ba a clit----so not cool.

Who the hell woke you up any-a-ways???

 

[Nick]

Look at it this way...

Say you let him back in and he's the big A-hole some people feel he is, you ban him and all of us "living in the past" shut up and eat crow. Done and over with.

You let him back in and he's a good contibutor to the site??? Well, you'll have 5000 more posts a day to try and get more $$$ with.

Win-win, no??

Listen, I recognize we are going to just have to disagree on this and that the ban is staying. I respect you want him back but I don't believe it is worth the risk while running AZ right now.

Sorry about that, but that's the way it has to be. There is no way I can make a decision that is going to please everyone so I have to do what I ultimately think is right, and I think it's upholding the way things have been.

The fact that I even need to have this conversation to this level of detail shows me that it wasn't a good situation. And it's easy to say if he screws up again just ban him; but if I did, do you really not think the exact same uproar would start all over again? Of course it would.... and then it would be a huge backwards step for AZ.

So I hope we can :beer: and move on....

 

[campgottagopee]

Listen, I recognize we are going to just have to disagree on this and that the ban is staying. I respect you want him back but I don't believe it is worth the risk while running AZ right now.

Sorry about that, but that's the way it has to be. There is no way I can make a decision that is going to please everyone so I have to do what I ultimately think is right, and I think it's upholding the way things have been.

The fact that I even need to have this conversation to this level of detail shows me that it wasn't a good situation. And it's easy to say if he screws up again just ban him; but if I did, do you really not think the exact same uproar would start all over again? Of course it would.... and then it would be a huge backwards step for AZ.

So I hope we can :beer: and move on....

Well, if an "uproar" were to start again it wouldn't be by me, that I can tell you with 100% certainty. And if it did, I'd be one of the first people to tell whomever the kid is a douche....really.

Until he's given a second chance that will be my stance.

He got a raw deal
FREE GSS!!!

 

[Glenn]

The vast majority of members enjoyed his contributions to the site and would love to see him return...

I see it differently. I see the same half dozen or so people saying he should be let back in. I think the other 99.9% of the members don't give a fudgesicle.

At this point, I don't really think the supporters want him back...as much as they just want their way.

IMHO...YMMV

 

[Rogman]

Wow. 16 pages? WTF? And this place is still boring. Here's what I got out of it.
1. GSS is still banned for being "interesting".
2. This place has a new owner? Seriously? Greg actually found a sucker, er, I mean savvy investor?

As for Killington being sold, unlikely POWDR would sell willingly, but who knows what kind of deal they have with E2M. The latter probably isn't too happy with how skier visits have cratered. They may have a buy out/buy back option, buried in the sale agreement.