Where are all the moguls?

[bvibert]

Clearly you've never talked to any of the racer/carver types that frequent Sundown. I agree that most people would be fine with 1/2 and 1/2, there are those that insist the entire trail should be groomed flatter than a pancake, with no imperfections to be found anywhere. Luckily they are the minority (despite what they will claim).

Every year when Sundown seeds half of it's signature run there's a few whiners, but overall the trail sees more use with bumps than without. Most of the season the trail is used for races, it's only after that is done for the year that the trail can be made useful again! :lol:

 

[BushMogulMaster]

Sundown uses a different technique, which yields more irregular bumps. They use the blade to push up individual piles of snow to form the bumps, working from the top down, backwards. Once the piles are in place skiers and boarders need to ski em in. It's a tedious process, with lots of back and forth movements in the cat, but I think it works well. The bumps end up feeling more like natural bumps than a course, which I like!

Yes, I've always been fascinated by how Sundown makes bumps. But I still find the more common way to be the most efficient and effective at producing nice bumps. Whether or not it skis like a course is up to the cat operator to decide. FWIW, here are the bumps on half of a trail at Ski Cooper that I seeded right around the Christmas rush. This is what they looked like after being skied in for about a week or two:

 

[bvibert]

Yes, I've always been fascinated by how Sundown makes bumps. But I still find the more common way to be the most efficient and effective at producing nice bumps. Whether or not it skis like a course is up to the cat operator to decide. FWIW, here are the bumps on half of a trail at Ski Cooper that I seeded right around the Christmas rush. This is what they looked like after being skied in for about a week or two:

View attachment 10246

View attachment 10247

Looks nice!

I spoke the to operations manager a few years ago about the seeding technique. He said they tried the method you described, but didn't like it. I don't recall if he gave any reasons why. It seems like it would be a lot quicker your way!

 

[St. Bear]

Try grooming half of a popular intermediate run, and leave the other half ungroomed. This is great for families and groups, so that mogul skiers and those who aren’t can ski/ride together.

This is such an obvious solution, I don't know why you don't see it done more often. Especially since so many of those types of trails are a mile wide.

 

[BushMogulMaster]

Looks nice!

I spoke the to operations manager a few years ago about the seeding technique. He said they tried the method you described, but didn't like it. I don't recall if he gave any reasons why. It seems like it would be a lot quicker your way!

It's super quick once you get the hang of it. I did that entire trail (about 3x the length of what you see in the pix) just about an hour flat. But it takes some getting used to, and it's useless on a steep trail without a winch or without really set up snow.

 

[BushMogulMaster]

This is such an obvious solution, I don't know why you don't see it done more often. Especially since so many of those types of trails are a mile wide.

+1

That's what I'm saying... hopefully someone is listening!

 

[4aprice]

In my opinion you don't even need 1/2 a trail, a 1/4 (2 or 3 lines) is fine. The method BMM mentions is they way they seem to do it at Blue and those come out really nice. Thanks BMM, we need more advocates like you. Bumps on my home mountain make it ski just a little bit bigger (a good thing for a medum sized Mt like CBK) There always seems to be plenty of people on them particularly Lower Cleo which is a low angle bump run. I'm know there is some complaining but no one is talking about bumps on every trail. Pockets of bumps make the mountain much more entertaining and don't take up a whole hell of a lot of terrain (Killington does this).

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ

 

[ss20]

I'm also for the 50/50s. If small ski areas did this there'd be a lot more stuff to ski. Terrain park/ normal trail combos are pretty common, no reason mogul/not moguled combos shouldn't be as common.

 

[St. Bear]

One place that does a good job of that is Cannon. Just about all of the Front Five have moguls down the sides.

 

[C-Rex]

I like trails with bumps down the sides, and I'm a boarder. I'm one of the few that like hitting bumps now and then, but it's nice to be able to go around them when I get tired or sick of them. Plus that way if someone who hates bumps accidently finds themselves on a bumped up trail, they aren't totally screwed.

 

[C-Rex]

Also thanks for the explanation, I get the idea and now I realize I've seen a freshly seeded trail. I just thought it was some kind of learning area.

 

[jack97]

How have the moguls been at Crotched this year? When I went last year there were several trail sides where they were allowed to form. Nice opportunity to learn.

Bumps at Crotched has been great after snow events. They have some skiers who can ski with short rhythm so the bump formation has been good.

I was there this morning, the bump trail under the HSPQ has ice (I mean solidified liquid) with hard man made on top. The only decent section was under the valley lift about 1/4 from the top, the man made was on the soft side.

 

[jack97]

Johnnypoach told me they were cat seeding bumps at Mt. Southington the other day

hmm.... road trip.

 

[planb420]

should be a small field @ ski sundown sometime soon (prob after this weekends "R") for the King of The Mountain competition. It will be on the lower section of stinger....you can see they built up a good sized base for em. I will report once the seeds are planted.

 

[planb420]

Lastly, when all the potential causes of the decline in mogul terrain are listed, IMO the increase in snowboarding is likely the #1 culprit.

Woah Woah Woah there buddy, I'm a knuckle dragger who LOVES the bumps and ungroomed goodness. :beer:

 

[Domeskier]

Lastly, when all the potential causes of the decline in mogul terrain are listed, IMO the increase in snowboarding is likely the #1 culprit.

The proliferation of parks probably has something to do with it, as well. I suspect some resorts would be more willing to seed a bump run if they didn't already have so many of their trails devoted to park features. Of course, that appears to be what younger skiers want. Or what they x games tells them they want. Maybe if they actually aired some FIS mogul events in the US things would be different.

 

[mountainman]

Using a snowcat, this is the basic process:

Begin first line of moguls by pushing up a blade of snow. Crawl over pile of snow, and begin next pile while descending the last pile. Get into a rhythm (or follow bamboo/flags set to FIS standards if you're building a comp course) all the way up/down (depending on whether winching or free grooming) the line. The cut off 2/3 of the width of the piles you just made. Begin next line by positioning piles beside and between the piles you just made. Repeat until you're satisfied with the number of lines.

It's really hard to describe. I just seeded a couple lines last night at Ski Cooper. Next time I do it, I'll get some video. Maybe even make a "how-to" for other cat operators.

Do you use the tiller at all while making bumps or are they just roughed in and shape in by skiers after making them. I know at Okemo they till the bumps in then they are skied. They make some nicest lines and are rhythmic seeded bumps.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Woah Woah Woah there buddy, I'm a knuckle dragger who LOVES the bumps and ungroomed goodness.

Well, okay, but you're in the minority. Most snowboarders do not like (or even do) mogul trails.

I'll bet only 10% of snowboarders actively seek out mogul-only trails, meaning 90% of snowboarders dont seek mogul fields. I'll also bet 75% of snowboarders wont admit they dont do moguls.

It's a bit like hot salsa that way.*


*When asked, most men will claim they like hot salsa, but hot salsas are the worst selling of the salsa varieties. Proof? Next time you're in grocery store, try this exercise - look at the salsa shelf/shelves and you'll notice that there are far more varieties and number of mild and medium salsas for sale than hot.

 

[twinplanx]

Using a snowcat, this is the basic process:

Begin first line of moguls by pushing up a blade of snow. Crawl over pile of snow, and begin next pile while descending the last pile. Get into a rhythm (or follow bamboo/flags set to FIS standards if you're building a comp course) all the way up/down (depending on whether winching or free grooming) the line. The cut off 2/3 of the width of the piles you just made. Begin next line by positioning piles beside and between the piles you just made. Repeat until you're satisfied with the number of lines.

It's really hard to describe. I just seeded a couple lines last night at Ski Cooper. Next time I do it, I'll get some video. Maybe even make a "how-to" for other cat operators.

I would love to see this. Only thing better would be an actually ride along. We could be like Ice Cube & Kevin Heart ;-)

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[planb420]

Seeds have been planted on gnareaster at Ski Sundown.... Stoked to see them back on this trail

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