Who Has Bought Their 20/21 Pass Already?

[deadheadskier]

Bigger than passes, who has re-upped their seasonal leases? We lost our spot (sold) and I am interested to see if there's more inventory this year than in prior years.

I was set to sign ours (first timer), but when things started looking weird early March, I decided to pause. I too am curious to see if inventory increases in the MWV. See if owners are spooked by the potential of a second round C19 next winter and go for the safe money of a seasonal lease vs the bigger earning potential of putting their property on VRBO.

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[icecoast1]

Bigger than passes, who has re-upped their seasonal leases? We lost our spot (sold) and I am interested to see if there's more inventory this year than in prior years.

I'm waiting for the State of VT to allow real estate transactions again so I can renew mine. I'm sure there's going to be a lot more openings this year between the economy being in the toilet and people worried about what the virus situation is going to be next winter

 

[Zermatt]

I'm waiting for the State of VT to allow real estate transactions again so I can renew mine. I'm sure there's going to be a lot more openings this year between the economy being in the toilet and people worried about what the virus situation is going to be next winter

Huh? A state with 50 deaths and a s$#t hole economy stopped real estate transactions? I live in a legitimate hot zone and am closing on a house sale next week. They really are screwed forever, godspeed to VT.

 

[icecoast1]

Huh? A state with 50 deaths and a s$#t hole economy stopped real estate transactions? I live in a legitimate hot zone and am closing on a house sale next week. They really are screwed forever, godspeed to VT.

They shut down any sort of lodging reservations and renewing leases on seasonal rentals were included in that. You could still go through with house sales though as long as everything was done remotely and not in person. I havent been paying as much attention recently though, they're starting to ease restrictions so maybe things have changed

 

[BenedictGomez]

I was set to sign ours (first timer), but when things started looking weird early March, I decided to pause. I too am curious to see if inventory increases in the MWV. See if owners are spooked by the potential of a second round C19 next winter and go for the safe money of a seasonal lease vs the bigger earning potential of putting their property on VRBO.

I think this is smart. I wouldnt count on a 2nd round of COVID19, but worst-case scenario you'll probably lock into the same rental type as your budget allows. Best-case scenario there will be owners with a "pigs get fed, but hogs get slaughtered" mentality who'll decrease their asking price in order to line-up a renter & you'll get a nicer place cheaper than usual.

I'm waiting for the State of VT to allow real estate transactions again so I can renew mine.

Wait, what? This is insanity. The same state where WMT has its' food aisles open, but the sporting goods & home aisles are roped off.

I'm legit becoming concerned about this, that is, some governors are taking this WAY TOO EXTREME overboard & I cant help but believe it's going to have a really bad effect on the economy. If it were only 1 or 2 states, not such a big deal, but I'm reading stories like this a lot. Vermont's probably one of the most ridiculous, however, given how little impact COVID19 has had.

 

[thetrailboss]

During these uncertain times, you may feel unsure about the future and it may be difficult for you to commit to adventures still months away. We understand and want to help alleviate some of that uncertainty, should you decide to buy your pass now or later.

To welcome you to the Ikon Pass community, in addition to the many Ikon Pass benefits, we are introducing Adventure Assurance, providing flexibility for the 20/21 winter season by offering you the choice to defer your adventure to the following season, winter 21/22. This will continue to be available to you if you decide to purchase after prices go up on May 27, 2020.

What You Need to Know:

To take advantage of the lowest prices and discounts on child passes, purchase your 20/21 Ikon Pass before May 27, 2020.

Regardless of when you purchase, you can choose to defer the value of your 20/21 Ikon Pass to a 21/22 Ikon Pass. Contact us between September 10 - December 10, 2020 to defer your pass to the following season.

There is no fee to defer your pass to winter 21/22. More details


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Speaking of IKON and class act(ion)s:


https://www.classaction.org/media/kramer-v-alterra-mountain-company-et-al.pdf

Interesting tidbit: who is IKON Pass, Inc.? Is that owned by Alterra + the resort partners with each owning a piece and getting the revenue?


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[BenedictGomez]

Speaking of IKON and class act(ion)s:


https://www.classaction.org/media/kramer-v-alterra-mountain-company-et-al.pdf

Interesting tidbit: who is IKON Pass, Inc.? Is that owned by Alterra + the resort partners with each owning a piece and getting the revenue?

My W.A.G. would be that it's simply a separate entity created solely to help shield broader Alterra.

But you're the lawyer, and this got me thinking, if these EPIC & IKON cases DO actually get to court as opposed to being settled, does that mean that we the common people might learn more about EPIC & IKON via discovery than perhaps Vail & Alterra would be happy about?

 

[thetrailboss]

My W.A.G. would be that it's simply a separate entity created solely to help shield broader Alterra.

But you're the lawyer, and this got me thinking, if these EPIC & IKON cases DO actually get to court as opposed to being settled, does that mean that we the common people might learn more about EPIC & IKON via discovery than perhaps Vail & Alterra would be happy about?

Definitely a liability shield.

They will definitely want protective orders to prevent “trade secrets” from being exposed.

And I don’t think the suit(s) will probably get too far thanks to the expected contract language that goes with each product (Act of God, force majuere, no refund clause, etc.)


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[cdskier]

Speaking of IKON and class act(ion)s:


https://www.classaction.org/media/kramer-v-alterra-mountain-company-et-al.pdf

Interesting tidbit: who is IKON Pass, Inc.? Is that owned by Alterra + the resort partners with each owning a piece and getting the revenue?

Umm...doesn't the first line of the intro pretty much answer this?

Ikon season ski passes are sold by Defendants Alterra Mountain Company and its fully-owned subsidiary Ikon Pass Inc.

Or again in the Parties section:

7.Defendant Ikon Pass, Inc. is a Delaware Corporation with its headquarters at 3501 Wazee St., Denver, CO 80216. Ikon Pass, Inc. is a fully-owned subsidiary of Alterra.

 

[VTKilarney]

They shut down any sort of lodging reservations and renewing leases on seasonal rentals were included in that. You could still go through with house sales though as long as everything was done remotely and not in person. I havent been paying as much attention recently though, they're starting to ease restrictions so maybe things have changed

Not quite true. Lodging reservations for after June 15th are allowed.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Umm...doesn't the first line of the intro pretty much answer this?

It's not that simple. The word, "and" is a bit confusing there. Does Alterra sell IKON passes too, or just the subsidiary company? As I said before, I'm pretty sure IKON Pass Inc. exists solely to protect Alterra, but that "and" is somewhat ambiguous.

 

[cdskier]

It's not that simple. The word, "and" is a bit confusing there. Does Alterra sell IKON passes too, or just the subsidiary company? As I said before, I'm pretty sure IKON Pass Inc. exists solely to protect Alterra, but that "and" is somewhat ambiguous.

Whether Alterra sells Ikon passes as well is irrelevant to the question TB asked. He asked "who is IKON Pass, Inc.? Is that owned by Alterra + the resort partners with each owning a piece and getting the revenue?" The answer there is pretty clear. "Ikon Pass, Inc" is a fully owned subsidiary of Alterra. If they are "fully" owned by Alterra, then the resort partners can't own a piece of "Ikon Pass, Inc" (unless they also happen to own a piece of Alterra).

Completely agree with you that the subsidiary exists to protect Alterra. Nothing surprising at all about a large company having subsidiaries for different functions and activities.

 

[Newpylong]

Not so much to protect Alterra but to make member mountain disbursements and the books easier.

 

[JimG.]

I was set to sign ours (first timer), but when things started looking weird early March, I decided to pause. I too am curious to see if inventory increases in the MWV. See if owners are spooked by the potential of a second round C19 next winter and go for the safe money of a seasonal lease vs the bigger earning potential of putting their property on VRBO.

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Good timing for you.

And I agree with your current plan.

I am totally rethinking any ski country real estate purchase at this point. See where things stand in 12-18 months.

 

[thetrailboss]

Umm...doesn't the first line of the intro pretty much answer this?



Or again in the Parties section:

Interesting. Frankly last night I did not read much of it and just posted it.

Those are allegations....so looks like their site and some digging turned that up, but it is not an admitted fact. I don't have much reason to doubt it, just thought it was interesting that they created that entity.

 

[thetrailboss]

Not so much to protect Alterra but to make member mountain disbursements and the books easier.

True, but as is the case here, Alterra can say, "wrong entity" and point the finger to the IKON entity, so the liability shield applies there. Of course when you get into the technicalities it may not ultimately make much of a difference.

 

[thetrailboss]

It's not that simple. The word, "and" is a bit confusing there. Does Alterra sell IKON passes too, or just the subsidiary company? As I said before, I'm pretty sure IKON Pass Inc. exists solely to protect Alterra, but that "and" is somewhat ambiguous.

I think that the word "and" is for CYA because an outsider just does not know what they do....

 

[cdskier]

Those are allegations....so looks like their site and some digging turned that up, but it is not an admitted fact. I don't have much reason to doubt it, just thought it was interesting that they created that entity.

Years ago I saw a giant poster board chart in our legal department at work of all our subsidiaries and various legal entities at the time. Quite frankly it was a huge eye opener. Ever since then I've never been surprised at any company that has various subsidiaries when you typically think of it as "1" single company.

 

[thetrailboss]

Years ago I saw a giant poster board chart in our legal department at work of all our subsidiaries and various legal entities at the time. Quite frankly it was a huge eye opener. Ever since then I've never been surprised at any company that has various subsidiaries when you typically think of it as "1" single company.

Absolutely. I, and others, are just interested in how the IKON pass "works" in terms of distributing money to the member resorts.

 

[p_levert]

Absolutely. I, and others, are just interested in how the IKON pass "works" in terms of distributing money to the member resorts.

Yes, I am hugely interested in how these pass products distribute revenue (Ikon, Epic, Indy, Freedom). Epic is pretty simple, just because nearly all of the resorts are owned by the same company. But everyone else, who knows?

I heard a non-confirmed report that Bolton Valley managed the Freedom Pass. If this is true, they are correct to hide their involvement, because, wow, the most screwed up pass product anywhere! Even though this pass appears to dead as a doorknob, the freedompass.ski website is still up. But it was never clear which resorts were really in or out.