Who Has Bought Their 20/21 Pass Already?

[BenedictGomez]

Not so much to protect Alterra but to make member mountain disbursements and the books easier.

I dont think either of those things are true.

One, I'd be shocked if a major point of the wholly-owned subsidiary isnt to help deflect liability, and on your second point, I dont understand what you're saying. I work for a company that sells hundreds of products, some with complicated royalties (i.e. much more difficult than lift ticket disbursements), and I cant think of a reason why having a separate "Inc." would make the books any easier. Frankly, it actually complicates things via duplication.


EDIT: This got me thinking though. Could Vail do this too, and if so, have they created an off balance sheet entity? That could be a bit more interesting given they're a publicly traded compnay. Hmmm.....

 

[Newpylong]

I dont think either of those things are true.

One, I'd be shocked if a major point of the wholly-owned subsidiary isnt to help deflect liability, and on your second point, I dont understand what you're saying. I work for a company that sells hundreds of products, some with complicated royalties (i.e. much more difficult than lift ticket disbursements), and I cant think of a reason why having a separate "Inc." would make the books any easier. Frankly, it actually complicates things via duplication.


EDIT: This got me thinking though. Could Vail do this too, and if so, have they created an off balance sheet entity? That could be a bit more interesting given they're a publicly traded compnay. Hmmm.....

What do I know, I just asked someone at Alterra instead of guessing.

 

[slatham]

Yes, I am hugely interested in how these pass products distribute revenue (Ikon, Epic, Indy, Freedom). Epic is pretty simple, just because nearly all of the resorts are owned by the same company. But everyone else, who knows?

I heard a non-confirmed report that Bolton Valley managed the Freedom Pass. If this is true, they are correct to hide their involvement, because, wow, the most screwed up pass product anywhere! Even though this pass appears to dead as a doorknob, the freedompass.ski website is still up. But it was never clear which resorts were really in or out.

Two things I know for a fact, on the Freedom pass, tickets at your non-home-pass area were "comp" tickets - no money exchanges hands. For the Indy pass, when someone uses their pass at a non-home-pass area, that area generates revenue.

My guess is for Epic, even though both home-pass area and non-home-pass area are Vail, they will still allocate revenue to the non-home-pass area.

 

[bigbob]

When I used my IKON Pass at Sunday River I had to get a ticket. i signed a slip and I think it had a charge of $46 on it

 

[snoseek]

Any news on how vail resorts resorts plans on moving forward going into next season. I'm torn between epic (better east for me) and ikon (better west options) and am absolutely not committing until I know there's some kind of protection.

 

[prsboogie]

https://www.epicpass.com/info/epic-coverage.aspx

They just posted this on their website.

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[snoseek]

https://www.epicpass.com/info/epic-coverage.aspx

They just posted this on their website.

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Yeah this puts me at ease a bit. Between missing wildcat last winter and that generous veteran discount I'm super tempted.

 

[thetrailboss]

Now will IKON follow?


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[cdskier]

Now will IKON follow?

Follow what? They already doubled the discount to renewals AND offered protection if next year's season is cancelled (or even if you don't personally feel comfortable skiing even if it is open).

 

[p_levert]

I dunno, it's something, but really not much. As soon as you have used your season pass for 7 days, you lose all possibility of a refund. See the FAQs.

Honestly, I prefer having the option of backing out in December for any reason. Personally, I don't think there's much chance of a virus 2nd wave this summer. But, dang, there could be a second wave by the fall and I prefer to protect myself against that. Ikon for me.

 

[Jcb890]

I didn't think of this until yesterday, but even when lockdown/shelter-in-place fets lifted, who is going to feel comfortable riding up on a chair lift right next to a stranger or being in a gondola/bubble with someone who could be carrying the virus? Kind of scary to think about it honestly.

 

[p_levert]

Follow what? They already doubled the discount to renewals AND offered protection if next year's season is cancelled (or even if you don't personally feel comfortable skiing even if it is open).

Vail made two announcements. The pass coverage for next season is one thing. But they also announced a 20% reduction for returning passholders. It's more than the $100 that Ikon offered on the base pass. Plus there's a kicker if you didn't use your pass much.

http://investors.vailresorts.com/ne...vides-update-season-pass-plans-20202021-north

 

[Edd]

I didn't think of this until yesterday, but even when lockdown/shelter-in-place fets lifted, who is going to feel comfortable riding up on a chair lift right next to a stranger or being in a gondola/bubble with someone who could be carrying the virus? Kind of scary to think about it honestly.

Outside with the chair in motion? I’m not worried, personally.

Edit: But yeah, screw gondolas and trams. Like I needed another reason to dislike those kinds of lifts.


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[cdskier]

Vail made two announcements. The pass coverage for next season is one thing. But they also announced a 20% reduction for returning passholders. It's more than the $100 that Ikon offered on the base pass. Plus there's a kicker if you didn't use your pass much.

Right...the reductions for returning passholders aren't really THAT different for most skiers (with the exception of people who used their pass less than 7 days...which is honestly overall probably a pretty small % of overall passholders).

Ikon effectively offered 20% off the full Ikon and 14% off the base Ikon. %20 from Vail on the Epic Local comes out to $140.

Additionally, the Epic Local costs $30 more than the Ikon Base...so the net difference comes out to $10.

 

[p_levert]

Right...the reductions for returning passholders aren't really THAT different for most skiers (with the exception of people who used their pass less than 7 days...which is honestly overall probably a pretty small % of overall passholders).

Ikon effectively offered 20% off the full Ikon and 14% off the base Ikon. %20 from Vail on the Epic Local comes out to $140.

Additionally, the Epic Local costs $30 more than the Ikon Base...so the net difference comes out to $10.

Oh, sure, the differences aren't huge. One other thing to note, however. For Ikon Base (that's me), there wasn't a price decrease at all. To renew one year ago, I paid $599, which included the $50 renewal discount. So then Ikon raised prices and offered the same $50 for renewal. Then, in response to Covid, they increased the renewal discount to $100. So we're just back at no price increase for 20/21.

OTOH, they made Sugarbush and Stratton unlimited, but took away Aspen and Jax, so really kind of a wash there as well.

 

[Zermatt]

Follow what? They already doubled the discount to renewals AND offered protection if next year's season is cancelled (or even if you don't personally feel comfortable skiing even if it is open).

IKON will have to match Epic's new "insurance" coverage. This appears to be a real insurance product that includes injury and typically uninsurable events like disease and war. Ikon is just offering a roll over of value and you have to opt-in before the season starts (and it does not look like it is backed by an insurance company).

FYI...Wimbledon had insurance coverage that included pandemics....they will be made whole this summer.

 

[slatham]

IKON will have to match Epic's new "insurance" coverage. This appears to be a real insurance product that includes injury and typically uninsurable events like disease and war. Ikon is just offering a roll over of value and you have to opt-in before the season starts (and it does not look like it is backed by an insurance company).

I agree, Epic covers many situations and provides a refund, including a prorata refund if season is cut short. Very customer friendly. With Ikon you can only defer usage for one season, though it is for any reason. But on the other hand, there is a due date of December 10th, and the pass cannot have been used.

 

[thetrailboss]

Out here, both Alta and Snowbird have suspended season pass sales for the immediate future.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Outside with the chair in motion? I’m not worried, personally.

Edit: But yeah, screw gondolas and trams. Like I needed another reason to dislike those kinds of lifts.

Same. Anyplace I ski I basically avoid them.


Gore - can 100% be skied without having to use the gondola
Jay Peak - never use the tram
Stowe - Only use the gondola if I want to hit Chin Clip (not a horrible loss)
Whiteface - never use the gondola

And that's it.

Makes me wonder though, if this is an issue, can chairs be successfully run on some vendor's gondy lines?

 

[Smellytele]

Outside with the chair in motion? I’m not worried, personally.

Edit: But yeah, screw gondolas and trams. Like I needed another reason to dislike those kinds of lifts.


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Standing in a line is worse than riding the lift.


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