Will Auto Makers Ever Deliver the Ideal Ski Vehicle?

[gmcunni]

quick math says i drove about 5100 miles last season for skiing. between driving a big GMC acadia + honda CRV and a old toyota camry i'll say 22 MPG as an optimistic average

231 gallons of gas @ 4.00? (i don't recall pricing from last winter) = $924

if i got 30MPG it would have been $680

 

[deadheadskier]

They are making them through 2012. I may get a new one this year. However, I can not seem to break mine. Hoping for this color option.

moving to Dorchester?

 

[Cannonball]

Diesels will solve the mileage issue.

Kinda, but not really. Solves some of the consumption problem. But doesn't solve much of the cost problem. This may have been done in another thread, but here goes. Comparing VW Jetta SportWagen Diesel vs gas. Using VW's numbers, this week's average fuel costs, and 20,000miles/year. Some math:

Diesel: 20,000miles / 42MPG * $4.013gal = $1,911
Gas: 20,000miles / 33MPG * $3.780gal = $2,291

Annual fuel cost savings of $380.

VW diesel cost $5K more than the gas version. $5,000/$380 = 13 years to break even.

 

[SkiDork]

another problem with deisel is finding stations that carry it

 

[Glenn]

But it is still easier to find than a spare 220v line. :lol:

 

[Geoff]

I wish every car on the market had this feature. I had an Explorer for many years and loved being able to lock my keys and wallet in the car, especially when going to the beach.

I have no idea why so few models offer it.

I would imagine that at one point, Ford held a patent on it. It must have expired by now. I wish all cars had the feature.

 

[deadheadskier]

I would imagine that at one point, Ford held a patent on it. It must have expired by now. I wish all cars had the feature.

I know back the 80s my neighbors had a Nissan Maxima with the keypad. It's the only other car brand I've ever seen it on.

 

[Geoff]

I know back the 80s my neighbors had a Nissan Maxima with the keypad. It's the only other car brand I've ever seen it on.

They make aftermarket ones but I don't know of anyone I would trust to install it.

 

[AdironRider]

Horrible MPG on both counts!

Ideal includes high MPG. You take a massive MPG hit for what most people would consider a good skier vehicle based on current available options.

YOUR IDEAL.

My ideal is 10+ ground clearance, a big powerful motor (at least a v6) and the capability to make it to far distant off road trailheads where I can skin to the goods. Anything but a truck, or serious SUV is not going to cut it for me. Ill gladly take the MPG hit (which is really peanuts considering my Nissan Frontier gets 22-23 highway with 32's and a 2" suspension lift.)

 

[Philpug]

Kinda, but not really. Solves some of the consumption problem. But doesn't solve much of the cost problem. This may have been done in another thread, but here goes. Comparing VW Jetta SportWagen Diesel vs gas. Using VW's numbers, this week's average fuel costs, and 20,000miles/year. Some math:

Diesel: 20,000miles / 42MPG * $4.013gal = $1,911
Gas: 20,000miles / 33MPG * $3.780gal = $2,291

Annual fuel cost savings of $380.

VW diesel cost $5K more than the gas version. $5,000/$380 = 13 years to break even.

Not really 5K difference. The TDI comes with more standard equipment than the base JSW. Look at resale value, the TDI is far superior than the gas model. Other benefit is performance, the TDI has more usable power . As far as mileage, diesel owners regularly get the estimated economy, the gas owners not so much. Also diesels get tax breaks (mine was $1300).

 

[AdironRider]

Not really 5K difference. The TDI comes with more standard equipment than the base JSW. Look at resale value, the TDI is far superior than the gas model. Other benefit is performance, the TDI has more usable power . As far as mileage, diesel owners regularly get the estimated economy, the gas owners not so much. Also diesels get tax breaks (mine was $1300).

Resale only compensates for the added maintenance costs. Diesel motors are built tougher to handle the higher compression, that means when parts break, they are more expensive. Not to mention the price gouging that will occur if you take that German automobile to the shop.

That being said, if you do the work yourself, you will still realize the couple grand savings, but thats only if you drive 200k miles in the car under your ownership.

In the other thread I brought this point up as well, who here actually drives a car to 200k? Im not asking if theyve owned a car with 200k miles on it, Im sure most of us have come close to that, but how many of us actually put 200k miles on the same vehicle. The only one thats believable is Deadhead, as he drives everywhere as part of his job.

200K miles is an unrealistic number to try and strive for to justify a diesel. The probability of you owning that vehicle for 13 years is slim to none. Just look at the cars you've owned thread, unless most folks here are driving 30-50k miles a year, that aint happening.

 

[mondeo]

Resale only compensates for the added maintenance costs. Diesel motors are built tougher to handle the higher compression, that means when parts break, they are more expensive. Not to mention the price gouging that will occur if you take that German automobile to the shop.

That being said, if you do the work yourself, you will still realize the couple grand savings, but thats only if you drive 200k miles in the car under your ownership.

In the other thread I brought this point up as well, who here actually drives a car to 200k? Im not asking if theyve owned a car with 200k miles on it, Im sure most of us have come close to that, but how many of us actually put 200k miles on the same vehicle. The only one thats believable is Deadhead, as he drives everywhere as part of his job.

200K miles is an unrealistic number to try and strive for to justify a diesel. The probability of you owning that vehicle for 13 years is slim to none. Just look at the cars you've owned thread, unless most folks here are driving 30-50k miles a year, that aint happening.

And you continue to not take into account the fact that since they're built heavier, they tend to last longer. In general, at least with trucks where there's more data, diesels tend to be lower long term costs because they just don't break.

 

[AdironRider]

And you continue to not take into account the fact that since they're built heavier, they tend to last longer. In general, at least with trucks where there's more data, diesels tend to be lower long term costs because they just don't break.

Wrong. The HD and truck world has realized that while the trucks may indeed last longer (which is debatable mind you, any car or vehicle will last a long time when maintained well), but it still takes 200k plus miles to see that difference. Again, are you driving the same vehicle that long, probably not.

 

[Geoff]

Wrong. The HD and truck world has realized that while the trucks may indeed last longer (which is debatable mind you, any car or vehicle will last a long time when maintained well), but it still takes 200k plus miles to see that difference. Again, are you driving the same vehicle that long, probably not.

Please explain the expensive failure points of a VW CBEA 2.0L TDI?

The "expensive maintanence" is fuel filter and air filter every 20K miles.

 

[hammer]

To answer the OP, no...because there isn't one clear, complete definition of what an ideal ski car is...

 

[Nick]

I know back the 80s my neighbors had a Nissan Maxima with the keypad. It's the only other car brand I've ever seen it on.

Yeah my SIL's ford does that today.

i like the nissan's where you don't even have to put a key in the ignition. I used to think my Saab's FOB was so cool before haha.

 

[riverc0il]

Well, I am going to give up debating my perspective on this issue. This thread clearly proves that the auto industry already has made the ideal ski vehicle for better than 90% of the skiing population that doesn't value an extra $1000 per year in their pocket due to better mileage. But I still don't understand how you guys don't think an AWD cargo hauler that gets 35+ combined MPG is not more ideal than what you guys already have. You guys have proven that the auto industry clearly would be wasting their time and money improving fuel efficiency in the AWD market. I'm stunned.

 

[ctenidae]

Well, I am going to give up debating my perspective on this issue. This thread clearly proves that the auto industry already has made the ideal ski vehicle for better than 90% of the skiing population that doesn't value an extra $1000 per year in their pocket due to better mileage. But I still don't understand how you guys don't think an AWD cargo hauler that gets 35+ combined MPG is not more ideal than what you guys already have. You guys have proven that the auto industry clearly would be wasting their time and money improving fuel efficiency in the AWD market. I'm stunned.

I don''t think I'd want a 35+MPG AWD cargo hauler as my daily driver, is all.

 

[riverc0il]

231 gallons of gas @ 4.00? (i don't recall pricing from last winter) = $924

if i got 30MPG it would have been $680

Don't forget to factor in your non-skiing miles. Probably enough of a difference to equate to a season pass and lodging for the season when you total up the different in yearly mileage. geoff's numbers suggest over $900 for the year, not shabby.



Guys, I'm talking ideals here. No one is saying your current car sucks and you need to defend it.

 

[JimG.]

In the other thread I brought this point up as well, who here actually drives a car to 200k? Im not asking if theyve owned a car with 200k miles on it, Im sure most of us have come close to that, but how many of us actually put 200k miles on the same vehicle. The only one thats believable is Deadhead, as he drives everywhere as part of his job.

Really?

I'm in the same exact industry as DHS and drive everywhere as well. On top of that, I have 3 kids who play premier soccer who need to be driven all over the planet. On top on that, I do most of my skiing on a daytrip basis.

I wish I still had the 04 Outback with 350K on it...I'd take a pic of the odometer to prove to you that mileage figure.

And I bought that car with 9K on the odometer so yes, 341K of that mileage I actually put on the car myself.

You need to be a bit more careful with your sweeping and dismissive statements.