Will driverless cars help remote resorts?

[speden]

... Machine will make the SAME mistake EVERY SINGLE TIME! ...

I don't think it will be quite like that. The self-driving cars are going to be networked. When a car goofs up and crashes, the engineers will get the data, analyze what went wrong, figure out a fix, test the fix in a virtual driving simulator that crams hundreds of years worth of driving into a few hours, and then download the fix to the cars. So the algorithms will generally get better over time.

But I do think you will see significant variations in quality and feel between the different car companies, so people will shop around for the best autonomous systems and features they want. I suspect there will be low end systems that drive like a cautious old lady and others that can be set to drive more aggressively. I for one would not buy a system that didn't let me set speeds above the speed limit or that didn't include a steering wheel.

 

[abc]

Anecdotally, the best example of this I've seen was a girl who I went to high-school with. I'd usually get a ride to school with her (private school, no bus available, and I didn't have a car), and on days that she was on time, it was terrifying—she'd be brushing her hair, fiddling with the radio, and what have you, and her brother and I would have to let her know when she was about to hit the ditch. When she was running late (more common), she'd be going at least 10-20 MPH faster and, because of the higher speed, stay focused on driving.

Very much my point.

The self-drive car need to perform as well as she does on days she's late.

 

[JimG.]

very interested in driverless technology. i'd take it a step further and hope to see neural simulation technology in my lifetime. this would have limitless possibilities and you'd never have to leave your domicile. netflix has 2017 a movie called 'otherlife' that depicted this idea, was very interesting.

How will I fit my favorite ski areas into my domicile?

 

[Not Sure]

This thread is terrifying to me in many ways . Giving away control of your personal safety for convenience.:-o I get the Air travel subject is similar but will leave that out for now.

I have no confidence in the technology that is designed to keep the vehicle on the road . GPS relies on a good sat signal , mountainous areas ( around Ski areas) could loose signal ,add in a blinding snow squall and good luck staying on the road.

I have no doubt AZ ers are good Winter driving veterans and understand what happens when you apply throttle at the right or wrong times,recognize black ice or determine quickly changing road conditions due to elevation.

Imagine all the problems that occur in a conventional automobile? A few sensors go bad and your on the evening news . I remember Volvos issues years ago with "sudden acceleration syndrome" at least you had steering and some brake control.

They are connected to the Internet so "Hackable"



Tons of unanswered questions ; If your over the legal limit for DUI? Can you get out of it as you were technically a passenger ? Same goes for speeding or any other traffic infraction . Does the car manufacture bear liability of accidents.

I will never get in a vehicle that does not have a steering wheel.

 

[abc]

But you totally misunderstood the self-drive technology! So your fear is entirely misplaced.

Automated drive car don’t rely on gps to stay on the road!!!

Sure, it uses gps to know WHICH road it’s on, just like us use gps to know which side road to turn. When there’s no signal, we just look at the street signs. That’s how yhe autonomous cars do too. Cameras.

But to stay on the road, gps are not used because it’s not accurate enough. Instead, it uses cameras and radars, like auto-pilots on planes. Yes, you didn’t want to talk about planes. But when you fly, you’re not just giving up control, you’re giving it up to a computer!!!

 

[benski]

I know I am taking an extreme pro self driving car stance here but I think introducing self driving cars that is slightly less safe than the average human will improve highway safety. I think the first people using them will be disproportionately likely to be impaired or generally bad drivers. Also with self driving cars making the same mistakes it will be more predictable, and therefore easier to adapt too.

I would not be surprised if self driving cars keep the manual controls anyway. It sounds like self driving cars might struggle in situations where there is no defined path, like on a driveway and I would not be surprised if people still want manual controls in there self driving cars like automatic transmissions have a manual mode.

 

[SkiingInABlueDream]

Might as well just look forward to teleportation. Heck that'll eliminate the need for lifts too - you'll be able to beam yourself to any mountaintop from your living room. [emoji849]

 

[Glenn]

I suppose to get this thread back on track....once all the hurdles are cleared discussed above....

Certainly, I think these vehicles would help areas that are bit more off the beaten path and/or further away from major population centers.

 

[Not Sure]

But you totally misunderstood the self-drive technology! So your fear is entirely misplaced.

Automated drive car don’t rely on gps to stay on the road!!!

Sure, it uses gps to know WHICH road it’s on, just like us use gps to know which side road to turn. When there’s no signal, we just look at the street signs. That’s how yhe autonomous cars do too. Cameras.

But to stay on the road, gps are not used because it’s not accurate enough. Instead, it uses cameras and radars, like auto-pilots on planes. Yes, you didn’t want to talk about planes. But when you fly, you’re not just giving up control, you’re giving it up to a computer!!!

I’m aware that GPS is not the sole aspect of self driving vehicles. I’ve been sent the wrong way many times by my GPS in my phone.Re routed in ways that made no sense. At this time theres no way a computer can deal with winter driving adaptations.

I have avoided many Deer in my time as well to add another obstacle in the mix.

Pilots are still in control of taxiing , takeoff and landings. Plenty of videos on you tube of auto pilot malfunctions too.

Not going to give up my steering wheel no matter what!

 

[granite]

Get your money out. The government can't wait to start taxing you on these type of vehicles, dollar signs are spinning around in their eyes. They are already trying to tax you if you own any type of electric or hybrid vehicle that consumes less fuel. Worse of all, once they start taxing you, the won't be able to control themselves and they will keep raising the tax.

 

[kbroderick]

I suppose to get this thread back on track....once all the hurdles are cleared discussed above....

Certainly, I think these vehicles would help areas that are bit more off the beaten path and/or further away from major population centers.

I get one day off a week, and my general tolerance for drivetime on a recreational day trip is 1-2 hours each way, with a strong preference towards the low end of that. (If I lived further south, I'd probably have to increase that tolerance...but that's part of why I live where I do).

I plan to get over to Mt. Washington at least a few more times this winter/spring, but I'm unlikely to drive over to Vermont to ski, or even Loon, where my pass is valid. If I could roll out of bed and into the car at 4 a.m., tell it to wake me up at Killington, and go back to sleep, I'd be a lot more likely to take a day to ski there.

When I was living in Montana, my Red Lodge pass included a handful of days at Whitefish that I never used, because it's in the neighborhood of six hours driving on a good day. If I could have left the house at midnight (or 11 p.m. or 10 p.m. if the weather wasn't great), slept on the way there, and woken up at Whitefish, skied all day, stayed up there overnight and then had the vehicle drive me back after the second day of skiing (or hell, even day trip it and watch TV shows on my tablet and then sleep on the way home after getting dinner in Whitefish), I'd have used some or all of those days.

So I think it will have an impact. And as a software engineer by trade, I fully recognize that there are risks involved, but those risks are far easier to mitigate than those introduced by putting humans behind the wheel, especially poorly trained, tired, and/or drunk humans.

There are plenty of other examples where we give up control of our transit for convenience (buses, planes, trains, taxis and chairlifts come to mind), and three of those methods are primarily computer-controlled.

 

[drjeff]

Tons of unanswered questions ; If your over the legal limit for DUI? Can you get out of it as you were technically a passenger ?

I believe there was a case, I think in California if I recall the article I read about this correctly, that happened not too long after the 1st autonomously driving Tesla hit the road that dealt with this topic.

The driver, after drinking too much, got in his car, and did what ever the procedure is to set the navigation system to get him home. He was basically passed out behind the wheel, while the car was driving him home. The car committed some minor infraction that was noticed by the police, they went to stop the car, that finally happened when it pulled into and stopped in his driveway. The police suspected he was over the legal limit and administered a field sobriety test, which he failed, and was arrested.

He appealed that he wasn't "driving". The legal precedent apparently is that if you're in the car, and the keys are in the ignition, and you're deemed the "operator" that whether or not you were actually driving the car, or say pulled over sleeping/passed out with the keys in the ignition, that you are "operating" the vehicle, and in the eyes of the legal system "operating" and "driving" are one and the same.

So basically, using an autonomously driving vehicle as one's de facto uber if they're under the influence and the only one in the vehicle won't allow them to avoid the legal ramifications if they're stopped for something and found to be over the legal limit....

 

[cdskier]

So basically, using an autonomously driving vehicle as one's de facto uber if they're under the influence and the only one in the vehicle won't allow them to avoid the legal ramifications if they're stopped for something and found to be over the legal limit....

For now...at least until someone somewhere successfully challenges those laws and gets them overturned/changed. I can see that happening eventually.

 

[kbroderick]

...The legal precedent apparently is that if you're in the car, and the keys are in the ignition, and you're deemed the "operator" that whether or not you were actually driving the car, or say pulled over sleeping/passed out with the keys in the ignition, that you are "operating" the vehicle, and in the eyes of the legal system "operating" and "driving" are one and the same.

I'd heard that before, and there are good reasons for that precedent (e.g. someone stumbles out of the bar, to the car, puts the keys in the ignition, better to be able to arrest them before they put it in gear), but how does it work with keyless ignitions? If I've got a camper van parked in the bar lot and I climb in the back to sleep it off, with the keyless ignition fob in my pocket, am I operating the vehicle? (clearly not, and I'm sure courts would agree)...but then what if it's two guys sleeping it off in the cab of a pickup, one on each side?

OT, but rather interesting in that context.

And as suggested, I'm sure the legal frameworks will catch up with the tech once it reaches full automation. Heck, you'll probably be able to use your phone to direct your car to come pick you up, at which point you can get in the passenger-side door and never get near the wheel (if it even has one).

I do expect that we'll see steering wheels either go away entirely or fold away into the dash when not in use, given that they create a large protrusion into the passenger compartment.

 

[abc]

I do expect that we'll see steering wheels either go away entirely or fold away into the dash when not in use, given that they create a large protrusion into the passenger compartment.

Actually, I don't expect that to happen. There're plenty of people who actually enjoys driving, some of the time.

But the day will come when an autonomous car will be legal without a driver. How long it takes I don't know. And how exactly the change in law will play out is another interesting topic too.

 

[abc]

At this time theres no way a computer can deal with winter driving adaptations.

In case you forgot, anti-lock brakes had made winter driving considerable safer for the average driver.

"At this time", the computer hasn't quite up to speed on many conditions. But "they" are learning fast!

In chess (and in Jeopardy), computer had beat the best of the world after years of trying. There will be one day when computer can easily beat the average human driver.

 

[BenedictGomez]

There will be one day when computer can easily beat the average human driver.

The computer already beats humans in most facets of driving, which is why manual transmission is now obsolete.


EDIT: Not interested in debating the 2 or 3 people who will surely reply saying that they can shift "better" than any modern computer can.

 

[kbroderick]

Actually, I don't expect that to happen. There're plenty of people who actually enjoys driving, some of the time.

But the day will come when an autonomous car will be legal without a driver. How long it takes I don't know. And how exactly the change in law will play out is another interesting topic too.

a) the number of people who actually enjoy driving seems to be a relatively small as a portion of the population, although it probably has an oversized impact on the auto industry
b) for those people, vehicles that can be operated manually or put in autonomous mode will exist, at least in the near term, and I strongly expect we'll see those vehicles provide a way for controls to fold out of the way when not in use, to provide more room (and better crash safety) for the passenger in the left-front seat

And I do enjoy driving, and relative to the comment on manual transmissions being obsolete, I'll still put my truck in "M" mode at time to control the shift points myself. It's not the same as having a real manual transmission, but it lets me better control descent speed (although the computer will do a pretty damn good job of that on its own—if I provide a little brake at the top of the hill to let it know I want to reduce speed, it will generally downshift), and it also lets me avoid sudden downshifts in slippery conditions when the frontward weight bias and relatively silly power-to-weight ratio of the truck could make a downshift interesting.

 

[abc]

a) the number of people who actually enjoy driving seems to be a relatively small as a portion of the population

That remains to be seen.

I don't consider myself a driving enthusiast. But I enjoy driving, some of the time. It just need to be in small dose. Longer than an hour, fun turns into a chore.

 

[speden]

... I have no confidence in the technology that is designed to keep the vehicle on the road . GPS relies on a good sat signal , mountainous areas ( around Ski areas) could loose signal ,add in a blinding snow squall and good luck staying on the road. ...

They will have redundant systems like GPS, cameras, LIDAR, etc., but there will be situations where they don't know what to do. They will probably deal with this by telling the driver, "I can't function here, you need to take over". And if the driver doesn't respond, then the car would try to pull over and stop in a safe place. The part that scares me are the cases where the car doesn't know there's a problem and just plows into something without even slowing down. I think this has happened to cars that rely on a single sensor system, such as only using a camera to save money. I'd want a car that used multiple sensors and redundant computers.