"Too Much Snow" and Winter Driving - The analogy

[billski]

After a couple of runs in some deep pow yesterday in my 70 under foot skis, I switched out to 96's and had a beautiful day. On the way home, I was tooling along in the storm, snowpacked roads at about 45mph. Not a crazy speed, but I was the fastest one on the road. Most others were going about 25mph and they just followed each other. Nothing white knuckle, nothing unsafe, kept a safe distance from others and was very patient.

But that got me thinking back to my skis. I've met many who find "deep" snow to be too much. I'm going to posit that many of these people were simply using the wrong tool for the job. Just like me submarine-ing in my narrow skis, I'd bet that many people who had a wider ski would suddenly skill much better - they have the knowledge and ski, just the wrong boards.

To the driving, the same thing applies. There are probably plenty of people who would do just find and lose the white knuckles if they had snow tires. I'll acknowledge that some drivers navigate pretty well on all-seasons, but it takes a superior skill to do this.

In both cases, they provide more control and more confidence. This is not to say that there are not inept drivers, most certainly there are. To idly brush off all slow drivers as incompetent is unfair and untrue.

It's too bad that money has to become a deciding factor for what tools are in the toolbox. To that, I'd say, if it's deep, consider some wider demo/rental skis for the day. As far as I know it's only the skiers who have this problem. And for the tires, just stay off the highway until the road is clear and treated.

 

[hammer]

Had to drive 20+ miles home during last night's storm. I kept my driving slow. Could I get a set of snows and be able to drive faster? Maybe, but in all honesty I don't want to deal with the additional cost and storage requirements. My approach is to avoid driving in conditions like last night and if I do need to I just slow down and adapt my driving style. Just adjust to the tools I have.

 

[〽❄❅]

Had to drive 20+ miles home during last night's storm. I kept my driving slow. Could I get a set of snows and be able to drive faster? Maybe, but in all honesty I don't want to deal with the additional cost and storage requirements. My approach is to avoid driving in conditions like last night and if I do need to I just slow down and adapt my driving style. Just adjust to the tools I have.

I'm curious, do you have AWD, FWD/limited slip differential or the lousy one wheel spin FWD or worse yet RWD?

Me, i'm stuck with a one wheel spin FWD which downright sucks! I have to keep the car for another two - three years before i can get something more capable. At this point investing in a set of steel rims for swapping out snows will be expensive with the additional cost of the snows. Being located in Philly where snow storms are few and far between does't help either. It's ridiculous to have to drive around with snows on dry or wet roads for the majority of the time. Not to mention accelerated wear if i don't get a extra set of rims for rotating them out prior to a snow forecast to the slopes and at the subsequent all to long warm up and dry cycles. I'm not so concerned about the highway drive where i can wait for a plow train to follow plus they are usually kept pretty clear. I worry about and dread navigating the twisty and hilly local roads and access roads to the mountain which can be downright treacherous with the one wheel spin FWD/all seasons tires. I hate missing out because of, but that's often what happens

 

[slipshod]

^^^^^^I live in Canada. Snow tires are the obvious choice here, because when it's cold, they're better on dry pavement than all seasons, in addition to their huge advantages on snow, ice and slush. A little farther south, I don't know what I'd do.

 

[hammer]

I'm curious, do you have AWD, FWD/limited slip differential or the lousy one wheel spin FWD or worse yet RWD?

Have AWD on my daily driver. Helps with starting but not with stopping. Just adjust my driving style accordingly, an mentioned the first approach is to avoid going out in bad conditions.

 

[billski]

. I worry about and dread navigating the twisty and hilly local roads and access roads to the mountain which can be downright treacherous with the one wheel spin FWD/all seasons tires.

It's always been my experience that the resorts bend over backwards to get the path to their ticket booth easily accessible. The time you really get stuck is if there is newfallen they haven't had a chance to treat. I remember one year at Jay there were some cars that couldn't make it up the local road and the traffic was backed up for miles. They should have "park and ride" shuttles for those days!

 

[KD7000]

I have 235mm worth of snow tire at each corner of the car and 257mm worth of snowboard under my feet, so I'm all good as far as deep snow is concerned!

 

[Mullen]

I overheard several people talking in the lodge on sunday saying they couldn't ski because there was "too much snow". The kid...maybe 14 or 15 that rode up the lift with my brother and I in the AM commented on how big my bros rome notch was (powder board), I think it's a 161, and plenty wide. He commented that he likes a shorter board in deep snow so it's "easier to turn." I kinda just rolled my eyes and told him he had it backwards. Some people just don't get it sometimes, like the person that couldn't make it up one of the hills on my way home yesterday.....in their lexus with rear wheel drive, rims and low pro tires on it.

 

[billski]

He commented that he likes a shorter board in deep snow so it's "easier to turn."

I've always found there are two ways to ski/board
- brute force, muscle your way down
- skill and style, less work, more fun

 

[dlague]

My wife had relatively narrow skis under foot and on powder days found her ski sinking. So for the next season I got here an wider ski that is rockered and cambered. She found it a little different to get up on edge at first on PP and liked in in powder. Now it is her universal ski!

This is like my truck - all season tires but they are wide and they are an AT tire, it is AWD with traction control and it gets me everywhere. We were heading up the 5 mile hill towards Bolton Valley which has some pretty steep sections and we made up no problem while the AWD cars were spinning them all and sliding sideways.

So not so much having the tools for different conditions it is finding the right tool that takes care of 95% of the conditions at least here in the East.

 

[Cannonball]

I overheard several people talking in the lodge on sunday saying they couldn't ski because there was "too much snow". The kid...maybe 14 or 15 that rode up the lift with my brother and I in the AM commented on how big my bros rome notch was (powder board), I think it's a 161, and plenty wide. He commented that he likes a shorter board in deep snow so it's "easier to turn." I kinda just rolled my eyes and told him he had it backwards. Some people just don't get it sometimes, like the person that couldn't make it up one of the hills on my way home yesterday.....in their lexus with rear wheel drive, rims and low pro tires on it.

Haha! I don't which surprises me more, someone wanting a shorter board for powder or someone considering 161 a powder board! My wife's everyday board is a 161. On Sunday she was commenting that it was treating her pretty well but that she'd like to have something bigger on hand for deeper stuff. The bottom line as always is that it's subjective and you use whatever floats (or doesn't float) your boat.

 

[Mullen]

Haha! I don't which surprises me more, someone wanting a shorter board for powder or someone considering 161 a powder board! My wife's everyday board is a 161. On Sunday she was commenting that it was treating her pretty well but that she'd like to have something bigger on hand for deeper stuff. The bottom line as always is that it's subjective and you use whatever floats (or doesn't float) your boat.

Good point on the "whatever floats your boat". 161 is a lot of board for a lady....or even most guys to throw around for an every day board. I wouldn't be able to on the width of it alone (size 9 foot) that's almost more of a factor for an every day ride than the length. Something too big and wide and you can't go edge to edge or pressure the edges correctly. I like a more skatey lively board that is quick edge to edge so it reacts qucikly in the trees or spinning off jumps, but for deep snow I can afford to jump up a few cm for a little better float.
The notch is rome's powder board.....it comes in a 158, 162 or 172:-o
with a swallowtail, so they, and the people that are buying them think a 162 is considered a powder board.

 

[Cornhead]

It seemed like the boarders were having an easier time negotiating the four feet of snow we were all trying to ski/ride at Snow Ridge last Friday, makes sense. Weighing 250 lbs probably doesn't help either. I was on a pair of Volkl Mantras, 177, 98mm under foot. It didn't take too many tracks to make it skiable. You just couldn't wander too far from them, or you were stuck. I drive an AWD with snows, I like to get where I'm going. Overkill? probably, peace of mind, definitely.

 

[〽❄❅]

Some people just don't get it sometimes, like the person that couldn't make it up one of the hills on my way home yesterday.....in their lexus with rear wheel drive, rims and low pro tires on it.

I know but i got the frigg'n one wheel drive terror two years before i figured out (thanks to shaped rocketed ski progress), i could ski again with tolerable consequence...although i still require anywhere from a day to a week or two recovery time between. Not uncommon for me to leave the ski area requiring both hands to lift my legs into and out of the car then and several days following. Prior to that and years back when shaped skis and short slalom ski's were in their infancy, skiing became a distant memory from my youth which i thought i'd never experience again.
Yes i freak at the thought of knowing i'm driving the wrong tool, i don't want to go back to only being able to dream about skiing.
Gotta say every time we have damaging weather events and i see parked cars sporting sycamore, maple or oak trees on the yakima's i say why couldn't that have been my darn car parked under that tree!

 

[DPhelan]

seems like as good of a thread as any to ask, does anybody have good recommendations for a 100% winter tire that would fit an 06 tacoma? new job starting after the 1st that is going to have a longer commute and no opportunity to work from home during inclement weather.

 

[C-Rex]

I have no problem if people don't want to spend the money on an AWD car and/or snow tires. And if they want to take it nice and slow getting home or wherever they're going, that's fine too, and probably for the best. But they could at least have the courtesy to stay out of the left lanes on multiple lane roads, and when on single lane roads to pull over once in a while and let the huge line of faster traffic behind them go by.


I take back roads to work and this morning I got stuck in a line behind a guy going 25mph the whole way. The roads were clean right down to the pavement and only a little wet with plenty of sand and salt on them. And of course the people in front of me wouldn't pass him so I would have to have done a multiple car pass to get around. I'm an asshole, but not that much of an asshole. Soooo frustrating!!! If you're that terrified to drive in wintery conditions, STAY HOME!!!!

 

[MEtoVTSkier]

seems like as good of a thread as any to ask, does anybody have good recommendations for a 100% winter tire that would fit an 06 tacoma? new job starting after the 1st that is going to have a longer commute and no opportunity to work from home during inclement weather.

This tire, studded, is what I run in Northern Maine on a 4x4 GMC.

http://www.treaddepot.com/group/dms.html

 

[pcampbell]

On my BC125s (90 waist I think) I prefer like 4-6" powder to be the sweet spot depending on the weight i suppose.

Snow tires and AWD for the win though.

 

[Krikaya]

Skiing and driving on snow are the same IMHO except fat skis will help. Fat tire are useless.

About 5 years ago I had a free ticket to Bretton Woods and after an uneventful drive up 93 in my Honda Accord (damned Front Wheel Drive) I slid across route 3 after an abrupt input on the steering wheel , hit a snow bank, flipped onto the roof and came to a stop upside down hanging from the seatbelt. The tow truck came, flipped the car onto the rubber, it started up as if nothing had happened and I made it to the mountain just a little after 1st chair. It was not my day however, as a power outage had crippled the lifts so I opted for a slow and careful drive home.

This is sorta what happens when I try to make my skinny (79 waist) all mountain skis do anything on those rare occasions when I ski powder. Some day I'll justify the expense of fat skis. Meanwhile my trashed Honda is still ticking.

 

[Cornhead]

Skiing and driving on snow are the same IMHO except fat skis will help. Fat tire are useless.

About 5 years ago I had a free ticket to Bretton Woods and after an uneventful drive up 93 in my Honda Accord (damned Front Wheel Drive) I slid across route 3 after an abrupt input on the steering wheel , hit a snow bank, flipped onto the roof and came to a stop upside down hanging from the seatbelt. The tow truck came, flipped the car onto the rubber, it started up as if nothing had happened and I made it to the mountain just a little after 1st chair. It was not my day however, as a power outage had crippled the lifts so I opted for a slow and careful drive home.

This is sorta what happens when I try to make my skinny (79 waist) all mountain skis do anything on those rare occasions when I ski powder. Some day I'll justify the expense of fat skis. Meanwhile my trashed Honda is still ticking.

Ha, old Hondas die hard, right Scotty. I had a 91 Accord with 275, 000 miles on it, it was euthanized in a crash, ran fine at the time. You're right about fat tires, they plow snow instead of cutting through it. I have 17" stock rims, 16" steelies with snows. The snows are about an inch narrower than the Summer shoes. They have a higher sidewall too, which helps absorb shitty Winter pavement.