We need a MRG thread

[SKidds]

When you think about it there is no other explanation other then prejudice and discrimination that holds water.

Every time I think I'm out, they suck me back in............

Drifter, I know you wanted to do more than scratch the surface when you started this thread. Like you said, none of us knows the motivation for sure (although riverc0il has a better feel than we do)......but I can come up with several other reasons why the ban stays in place, and I think they are better than prejudice against the slac..........um, snowbaorders.

I'm more inclined to lead toward preservation. Of the culture (replacing the single with a single is kind of indicative of this kind of thinking). Of snow/trail conditions.

Let me speculate on why prejudice is probably a minor factor, if any, among MRG shareholders. Take riverc0il for example. I've seen him around the internets. Here, the Time for Tuckerman boards. The type of skier and backcountry enthusiast committed enough to put up his $$$ in a skiing coop. I suspect you don't find many who frequent Tuckermans who hold the prejudice you speak of. MRG is a skiers ski area (not that other aren't) but here a little moreso than other places. The vibe is nature as nature intended it, skiing as the mountain brings it to you without much interference from the corporate office. Respect for outdoor pursuits is probably high on the list when it comes to MRG skiers and owners (again, not that the same can't be said about lots of skiers at other mountains). These generally aren't the type of people who would shun other skilled outdoor enthusiasts just because they ride a board instead of two planks. So, for me, it's the prejudice angle that doesn't hold H2O.

Is is any coinkedink that Alta, another throwback resort in attitude/culture and serious skiers mountain, is another of the offending snowboard banners? I don't think so, and I bet many of the MRG skiers/owners and Alta regulars would prolly get along real well.

So, I would finish 'MRG bans snowboarders becsuse..............' with they strive to preserve the best skiing conditions for their shareholders and skiers, while maintaining a culture and atmosphere with which they most identify. MRG owners are skiers, not that they have anything particular against snowboarders other than the fact that they way they impact conditions on the hill can be detrimental to ski conditions.

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

Is is any coinkedink that Alta, another throwback resort in attitude/culture and serious skiers mountain, is another of the offending snowboard banners? I don't think so, and I bet many of the MRG skiers/owners and Alta regulars would prolly get along real well.

So, I would finish 'MRG bans snowboarders becsuse..............' with they strive to preserve the best skiing conditions for their shareholders and skiers, while maintaining a culture and atmosphere with which they most identify. MRG owners are skiers, not that they have anything particular against snowboarders other than the fact that they way they impact conditions on the hill can be detrimental to ski conditions.

Interesting that you bring up Alta. They average 500 inches a year and ski wide open bowls. You think snowboarders would have a negative impact on conditions there?

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Interesting that you bring up Alta. They average 500 inches a year and ski wide open bowls. You think snowboarders would have a negative impact on conditions there?

maybe blocking the traverses...and I've heard that Alta still gets tracked out pretty fast because it's popular..

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

maybe blocking the traverses...and I've heard that Alta still gets tracked out pretty fast because it's popular..

No place in Utah gets tracked out faster then Snowbird, but they don't have a problem with boarders.

I just don't like excluding people because of their preferences in equipment.

 

[campgottagopee]

HPD (and others), you are really blowing the ban out of proportion. It comes down to one thing and one thing alone: the ban is in place because that is the way the shareholders want to keep the mountain. Perhaps it is an emotional response without many valid reasons. Perhaps it gives the place a "country club" feel of elitism. But I love the place and like most shareholders, don't want to change anything about the place. So I think the ban sticks in place because shareholders fear change more than anything else. Whether rational or irrational, that is the best "reason" for the ban.

Guess I'll throw myself in the "others" catagory---I don't think by disagreeing/not liking the ban is blowing anything out of proportion, it's just that, not liking it. I mean common' lets be serious, we're all humans who like to slide who the heck cares how many planks you use. Hey, I ski MRG and I like it---not hatin on it just find it silly in this day and age something like this is still around.

 

[billski]

Being a libertarian at heart, I'm happy to let people do their own thing, especially private concerns. I don't think Bear Creek private ski resort is much different; They exclude me based on money. Or what about the ski resorts that prohibit hiking on their lands? After all, it is their property (or leaseholder contractual right). They don't have to open to the general public, no?

Am I happy about that? Not. But heh, I've got a lot of choices still.

 

[riverc0il]

I was not saying that disagreeing with the ban is blowing it out of proportion. Rather, I was suggesting some of the wording being used was dramatic or inaccurate. People can disagree with the ban and discuss it. But I hate when these threads break down into inaccuracies such as discrimination or thinking that the shareholders have some misconception of snowboarders (some may, but not enough to be the reason the ban is in place). I slide with snowboarders frequently so it isn't personal.

The snow preservation argument for the ban is bunk... though a lot of shareholders use that argument. The fact is that on average, the snow quality at MRG gets beat up quickly enough as it is. If MRG hasn't had powder in the past week, chances are the snow surfaces are not at their best and snow boarders wouldn't make it much worse (for those snowboarders that actually LIKE skiing 2k worth of bumps run after run, I don't know hardly any that do). Also, with skis getting wider, skiers cut up the pow just as quick as snow boarders now. Additionally, there are a LOT of hack skiers cutting their teeth at MRG wrecking snow a lot better than experienced boarders. So to truly use snow preservation as a reason for the ban would mean also banning intermediate skiers from bump and powder runs. Wedge turns and side slipping do just as must damage as a snowboarding throwing their board sideways and sliding out all the snow.

So I don't buy that though it is used as an argument. It all comes down to the way shareholders want their mountain operated as a business. There is no business reason to include snowboarders. They wouldn't show up for bumps for the most part, especially when all the trees are tracked out and bumped up, and MRG needs no additional revenue on powder days or good snow days (lots of grumbling about long lines on powder days already). So there is no reason for change.

So the ban can be debated away. But the ultimate and true reason it exists is shareholders just don't see any reason to change it and change the character of MRG. Shareholders bought into the mountain to keep it the way it was... to ensure nothing changed. Pinning any other reason on the issue is painting with too big a brush in too broad of strokes.

 

[SKidds]

Interesting that you bring up Alta. They average 500 inches a year and ski wide open bowls. You think snowboarders would have a negative impact on conditions there?

Point conceded about the snow conditions at Alta, and the impact boarders would have there would be less signiicant than at MRG, but there still could be an impact. But Alta is probably heavier on preserving the culture, as opposed to snow conditions. Now I'll go back into the economics and business management side of things and point out that Alta is also making it's decision based on catering to their target demographic. They've been successful in providing a certain type of experience to a certain segment of the skiing community, and you cant really blame them for not wanting to upset the apple cart. It's not discrimination against knuckle dra.......um, snowbaoarders as much as it is preservation of business base. They have a unique commodity and have been successful in how they sell it to the public, despite the controversy.

 

[SKidds]

Wedge turns and side slipping do just as must damage as a snowboarding throwing their board sideways and sliding out all the snow.

So I don't buy that though it is used as an argument.

Thanks for more of an insider's perspective, and what you say about preserving conditions may be true, but I disagree on the impact some snowboarders can have on the character of a trail and how the conditions set up. I hear you, a wedge or side slip can push just as much snow around as a snowboard, but I don't think that observation gets you that far. When talking about MRG and the impact sliders of any type can have at any resort, we're not talking low angle terrain. Sure, on the greens and blues skiers and rider have an equal impact. But once you get into tougher terrain, I don't think that holds true. You just don't see many people snowplowing their way down a tough black, while you do see a lot of sbowboarders who navigate a significant portion of such trails with their board across the hill. No?

 

[riverc0il]

But once you get into tougher terrain, I don't think that holds true. You just don't see many people snowplowing their way down a tough black, while you do see a lot of sbowboarders who navigate a significant portion of such trails with their board across the hill. No?

Maybe not snow plowing... but definitely throwing their skis sideways and sliding for dear life. At most resorts this is a huge issue. At MRG, it is a bigger issue than most places due to its more difficult than average terrain. People jump into the woods thinking they are tree skiers and they get man handled. Heck, I did it when I first went to MRG and I didn't have my A game yet. It keeps me away unless the snow is good. There are so many steep parts of the mountain that can be hairy just a day or two after a storm. Especially the really steep stuff.

 

[riverc0il]

One additional business consideration I would submit is that the ski area and the coop would fail if it allowed snowboarders at this point (ironically). Shareholders and customers that are hard liners on the issue might just give up on the place, not buy season passes, ski fewer days, sell their shares, etc. Basically, just fall out of love with the place. I doubt the area could survive as anything but a skier only mountain.

 

[dmc]

When I get up to MRG to Tele(badly).... I see lines that are not skied by skiers that i could get if i was on my snowboard... My reality is much like any skiers... i want to get to the lines nobody else has ridden...

if I had a board on at MRG - I'd stay out of bump lines.. And just be in the woods...

but it's a moot point..

 

[dropKickMurphy]

I agree that sideskidding skiers do as much damage as sideskidding snowboarders. The problem is, there always seems to be a much higher proportion of snowboarders scraping their way down the slopes than skiers. Skiers will tend to traverse the slopes when they get in over their head. Which sucks for trying to preserve untracked powder lines, but that's not generally the issue in the east.

Snowboarders in general seem to want to stay in the fall line...even if it means sliding sideways down the steeper portions.

Good snowboarders do not do any more damage than good skiers. But bad, or inexperienced, snowboarders do. Since it's impractical to only allow good snowboarders (or good skiers) on the mountain, good snowboarders pay the price of not being allowed on a couple of the best ski mountains in the country.

As for Alta, a big issue is the traverses. Yes, Snowbird has plenty of traverses, too; but Alta seems to have more (non-gravity) traverses to get to the best terrain. Holding up traffic, (or worse, post holing) the traverses has an impact on other people's ability to get to the powder.

The bottom line, though, is that both MRG and Alta have loyal customer bases that value skiing a mountain without snowboarders. It definitely does make for a different atmosphere, and I can see what people love about skiing those places.

For that reason, snowboaders have to realize neither of those mountains will be changing their policy in the foreseeable future. Personally, I think a decent snowboarder might feel pretty comfortable on something like an Icelantic Shaman. I bet many of them would have a great time experiencing Alta or MRG on something like that. Some of them might even end up agreeing that, for those particular mountains, the policy does make sense.

 

[OldsnowboarderME]

I have decided I am not going to let the snowboard ban bother me anymore. There are plenty of areas for me to ride.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

I have decided I am not going to let the snowboard ban bother me anymore. There are plenty of areas for me to ride.

you can always just become a skier..

 

[OldsnowboarderME]

you can always just become a skier..

I could but iwon't .. :lol:

 

[dmc]

I like skiing... I'd switch back... But I'd kick all y'alls asses...

I'd love an AT setup actually...

 

[dmc]

For that reason, snowboaders have to realize neither of those mountains will be changing their policy in the foreseeable future. Personally, I think a decent snowboarder might feel pretty comfortable on something like an Icelantic Shaman. I bet many of them would have a great time experiencing Alta or MRG on something like that. Some of them might even end up agreeing that, for those particular mountains, the policy does make sense.

never makes sense.... It's a war of ideology... can't be won easily... I want to ride where you ski... I want you to ski where I ride.. whats the big f-in deal? Let the terrain separate the wheat from the chaff..... Unless you can only ski the stuff that gapers venture onto.. then I apologize...

the only issue is traverses... And they tend to work themselves out...

I have no idea what an icelantic shaman is...

 

[dmc]

I agree that sideskidding skiers do as much damage as sideskidding snowboarders. The problem is, there always seems to be a much higher proportion of snowboarders scraping their way down the slopes than skiers.

Thats what you see... but is it real? And on what types of trails? Beginner - intermediate - choppy bowls - wide open cruisers?

Where I ride out on big mountains.. It's not an issue...

 

[deadheadskier]

I could but iwon't .. :lol:

:lol:

good one!