2010-11 Ticket Prices

[billski]

MRG launches the first shot. Holiday prices up from 66 to 69 - 4.5% increase.
Magic is up to 59 from 56 for a Holiday ticket.
I got no stinkin' raise...

 

[deadheadskier]

Don't get me wrong, I love MRG. I recognize that they need to make hay when the sun shines due to lack of snowmaking and what not. I still think $69 is a bit outrageous for a mountain that has so little overhead.

 

[WJenness]

Don't get me wrong, I love MRG. I recognize that they need to make hay when the sun shines due to lack of snowmaking and what not. I still think $69 is a bit outrageous for a mountain that has so little overhead.

Do they publish detailed financials?

I'm wondering how much of their overhead is insurance costs... I wonder if they pay significantly more than similarly sized 'resorts' due to their lack of snow-making and grooming.

The additional impact of not having high-margin lodging to recoup those costs probably has a significant impact as well.

-w

 

[deadheadskier]

Just an arm chair QB here looking at a mountain with 4 lifts, non of them highspeed, miminal to no snowmaking, minimal grooming and limited F&B operations. Just as an example, I think Loon had a holiday rate of $72. You look at all that goes into running that operation compared to MRG and it doesn't quite align with the ticket prices. Not that I'd prefer Loon.

When I worked at Snowshoe, a resort with massive lodging operations, the profit from that division was very small as a lot of the money got returned to those who owned the units. F&B was a break even amenity. 90% of the profit came from ski area operations.

I'm sure many MRG skiers are fine with that price if it's designed to limit traffic on the hill.

 

[drjeff]

I'm sure many MRG skiers are fine with that price if it's designed to limit traffic on the hill.

I think we have a key component of that figure there. The cult of MRG in a way is almost helping to remove some of what made MRG what it is today, and I'm pretty sure that the folks making those descisions nowadays are aware that if they keep the prices substantially below that of their "competition" that the amount of extra traffic they'll get will have a negative impact on their snow surfaces, and that snow surface quality impact they may be facing isn't worth the extra $$ that they could bring in.

With a day ticket price like that, I bet that on a "good" day that many folks who might be thinking MRG or Jay might very well head to Jay for the extra runs they'll be able to get per day for close to the same $$

 

[mondeo]

I think we have a key component of that figure there. The cult of MRG in a way is almost helping to remove some of what made MRG what it is today, and I'm pretty sure that the folks making those descisions nowadays are aware that if they keep the prices substantially below that of their "competition" that the amount of extra traffic they'll get will have a negative impact on their snow surfaces, and that snow surface quality impact they may be facing isn't worth the extra $$ that they could bring in.

With a day ticket price like that, I bet that on a "good" day that many folks who might be thinking MRG or Jay might very well head to Jay for the extra runs they'll be able to get per day for close to the same $$

At the same time, though, if you drop the price and get more traffic, then at some point the quality of the product dimishes to the point that it doesn't warrant the new lower price. Reducing the price will have the effect of reducing demand. No one wins.

And before somebody quibbles about that last point:
http://www.differencebetween.net/business/difference-between-quantity-demanded-and-demand/

 

[WWF-VT]

With all the deals and options at MRG it's not likely that many people are walking up to the ticket booth and paying $69.00.

 

[Geoff]

With all the deals and options at MRG it's not likely that many people are walking up to the ticket booth and paying $69.00.

The big walkup holiday day ticket price is throwing a bone to the co-op shareholders. They mostly have season passes and don't want to be flooded with Sugarbush riff-raff. If I skied there, I'd want holiday day tickets to be $1,000

 

[riverc0il]

MRG launches the first shot. Holiday prices up from 66 to 69 - 4.5% increase.
Magic is up to 59 from 56 for a Holiday ticket.
I got no stinkin' raise...

Both are $39 mid-week, though. IMO, MRG should increase weekend prices substantially to match demand on weekends. They compensated with cheap mid-week rates in an attempt to bring in more skiers on the slow days. Mad Cards still average out to like $43 a day or something cheap like that. Magic has three day cards, too. Lots of discounts to take advantage of at both of these areas.

I was wondering when the annual update to the billski spreadsheet would be made. I checked around earlier this week and noticed most sites had not updated their sites for the new season (though I was looking for deal info not weekend holiday rates).

 

[riverc0il]

The big walkup holiday day ticket price is throwing a bone to the co-op shareholders. They mostly have season passes and don't want to be flooded with Sugarbush riff-raff. If I skied there, I'd want holiday day tickets to be $1,000

Totally off the mark.

 

[riverc0il]

Do they publish detailed financials?

http://www.madriverglen.coop/minutes/?Page=&dir=./annual

Technically on the Shareholder part of the site but it is public. Sorry to keep beating the dead horse folks but I'll say it again despite some folks seeming to not believe me: MRG is not raking in the profits. The Coop has good years and bad years. It breaks even some years, it looses money some years, and some years it makes a profit. But all of the revenues in excess of expenses are reinvested into the area to help maintain and preserve the existing infrastructure. The Single Chair rebuild was financed by donations, not profits. New share sales count towards revenues that help fund the area. I think the weekend/holiday rate hike was long overdue, both from a financial perspective and to adjust for demand.

And all that said, if we measure a ski area's ticket value by high speed lifts and infrastructure, Killington is justified in what it is charging whereas places like MRG and Smuggs are over priced. To hell with that logic. MRG has some of the best terrain in the eastern USA. I measure pricing based on value and quality of the product. MRG is second to none in that category even with the higher prices. Just buy a Mad Card if you are concerned about the higher prices but still want to ski MRG.

 

[deadheadskier]

And all that said, if we measure a ski area's ticket value by high speed lifts and infrastructure, Killington is justified in what it is charging whereas places like MRG and Smuggs are over priced. To hell with that logic. MRG has some of the best terrain in the eastern USA. I measure pricing based on value and quality of the product. MRG is second to none in that category even with the higher prices. Just buy a Mad Card if you are concerned about the higher prices but still want to ski MRG.

No doubt MRG is top 5 in the East for terrain. I don't think my logic is wrong though when you look at the overall overhead compared to other areas and the price they charge to support that overhead.

Maybe that $69 weekend rate is right and they need to drop the midweek price for the product down to Saddleback levels to manage their finacials better based on volume. I've skied there only twice in the past 5 years, both on weekends. Line for the single was 30 minutes. For the most part, I don't mind that line at all and walk away more than satisfied. However, I've never paid the full walk up rate there. Have to say that if I paid the full rate of $69, I'd probably wonder why I wasn't paying $13 more down the street at Sugarbush to get in twice as much skiing in my day. Quantity does matter to me more these days than times past when I was able to ski more. When you only can get out 20-25 days a year, you don't want to spend much of that time in line at premium prices.

 

[deadheadskier]

Both are $39 mid-week, though. IMO, MRG should increase weekend prices substantially to match demand on weekends. They compensated with cheap mid-week rates in an attempt to bring in more skiers on the slow days. Mad Cards still average out to like $43 a day or something cheap like that. Magic has three day cards, too. Lots of discounts to take advantage of at both of these areas.

I was wondering when the annual update to the billski spreadsheet would be made. I checked around earlier this week and noticed most sites had not updated their sites for the new season (though I was looking for deal info not weekend holiday rates).

was unaware the midweek product was already priced so low when I made the comments above.

guess I just need to get a job that affords me a life that allows for more midweek time off.

 

[Geoff]

Totally off the mark.

Why is it "totally off the mark"? MRG jacks up holiday prices to limit crowds. As a co-op where the shareholders typically have season passes, this is what the owners want.

 

[mondeo]

Why is it "totally off the mark"? MRG jacks up holiday prices to limit crowds. As a co-op where the shareholders typically have season passes, this is what the owners want.

While both statements may be true, that doesn't mean that's the reason. What it comes down to is that $69 is if anything too low a price. If $69 holiday tickets means 30 minute lift lines, then the cost probably isn't that big of an issue to the people coming and they could probably jack it up a little bit more and not get that big a drop in sales.

 

[Mr MRG]

With all the deals and options at MRG it's not likely that many people are walking up to the ticket booth and paying $69.00.

BINGO!!!!
It is very interesting to read this thread - and get the perspecitve of the skiing community out there. Alpine Zone provides a great service in that regard.

You are correct that not too many folks actually pay the holiday rate. MRG has an unusually high percentage of skiers who have season passes or utilize our Mad Card ticket options. Our philosophy is that if you in some way commit to us in the pre-season we will reward your loyalty and you can ski at a very reasonable price (Mad Cards get you on the hill for only about $46 a day - 3 unrestricted tickets that are transferable - can't beat that with a stick!). If you "cherry pick" us when the skiing is great during a busy holiday period sorry you'll have to pay more and frankly $69 on a holiday still ain't all that bad in comparison to the other ski areas out there. On top of that we offer a ton of other great value options throughout the year. Any midweek day all season is only $39 a day, no coupons, no hassles, just everyday low prices (YIKES I sound like Wal Mart!). This on top of the special day where you can ski 2 for 1 and you can even ski on the last Tuesday in January for a mere $3.50 (our 1948 lift ticket price to celebreate our anniversary each season). Add to this the fact that we offer FREE season passes to kids age 12 and under with the purchase of a Family Mad Card or any season pass. I honestly can't imagine how much less expensive we could possibly make it for folks and still be remotely sustainable.

It is also interesting to hear the comparisons with other ski areas. Yes it is true that our overhead is lower than most, however we have very limited revenue streams. We make hay on tickets and passes; the food and beverage, rentals, ski school and ski shops combined represent a relatively small percentage of our total revenues. We don't own a single lodging unit, we have never sold any real estate, have never developed a fractional ownership scheme of any kind and simply must make it on tickets and passes. There are not too many examples of ski areas out there that must survive on the revenue streams that we are limited to.

We are trying to be sustainable for the long-term by bucking nearly every conceivable conventional wisdom in the industry - trust me we are not rolling in dough and gouging skiers to line our pockets. The ski industry is a VERY tough one and its competitive out there. Of course we look at what our competitors are doing and try to react accordingly, however our Co-opownership structure limits what we can do in many cases. Keep in mind that well over 2,000 skiers have banded together to buy MRG so that we can collectively protect and preserve the unique ski experience offered here at MRG. They didn't buy into it to get free skiing or make a killing on their "investment". MRG is a labor of love for our team here and for the skiers who call it home and we all work very hard to make sure that MRG will be here for generations to come.

As an aside I find it interesting that folks keep talking about our lift lines. Sure with our limited uphill capacity we do get lift lines from time to time. However a half hour lift line is a fairly rare occurance here outside of a few weekends a year. And yes very occaisonally the lift lines can approach the 45 minute level on the Single but again that is a once or twice a year occurance and generally that is only for peak parts of the day 10-12 and 1 to 3. Arrive early, ski late, eat lunch early or late and you can get more than your fill of skiing in on those few busy days. That being said one must also keep in mind that because of our limited uphill capacity your time on the trails is relatively secluded. For me (and for many of our fans) I'd rather wait a bit on a lift line so that I can have the trails to myself when coming down. I'd take that kind of experience over the human pinball I have experienced at other areas with all those fancy detachable lifts. My Mom always told me that "the best things in life are worth waiting for" and a large enough niche of skiers out there seems to agree with my dear Mother. You may not agree with that and that's OK, there are plenty of other wonderful ski areas for you to choose from, MRG is a niche area that doen't try to be everything for everyone. We know our strengths and try to stay within ourselves and offer the kind of skiing that our owners have asked us to deliver. Also keep in mind that 8 to 10 runs of 2,000 vertical feet of skiing on MRG's legendary terrain is more than many skiers want or can handle on a give ski day.

One other thing I would like to add is that despite the rumors that are out there the Single Chair is NOT a slow lift. It is in fact the fastest fixed grip lift in North America (REALLY!). A mere 9 minutes on one lift to the top to access 2,000 verttical feet. There are not too many areas out there that even have 2,000 vertical foot lifts any more, most mountains generally require that you to take 2 or 3 lifts to get you to the "top". On a typical day you can get a ton of skiing here at MRG and you'll be sipping your Single Chair Ale in the pub at the end of the day knowing you have enjoyed plenty of great skiing for a good value and have the knowledge that you supported a unique organization committed to protecting and preserving a very special place. I'll get off my soap box now!

I hope that you can come to Mad River Glen at some point this season. For those of you who have never been here I encourage you to come experience it for yourself. Whereever you ski I wish you an awesome season with a ton of snow! Take care and....


THINK SNOW!!!!

Eric

 

[farlep99]

I skied MRG for the first time last season for $3.50 in March. Minimal lift lines, great conditions. I'll never complain about their ticket prices. I'd never have to pay $69 to ski there (I'd get a mad card) but if I did it'd be worth it anyway

 

[billski]

BINGO!!!!
It is very interesting to read this thread - and get the perspecitve of the skiing community out there. Alpine Zone provides a great service in that regard.
I hope that you can come to Mad River Glen at some point this season. For those of you who have never been here I encourage you to come experience it for yourself. Whereever you ski I wish you an awesome season with a ton of snow! Take care and....


THINK SNOW!!!!

Eric

Eric, I love you guys. You're not only honest, but transparent to match! It's not fair to compare your business model to megamonolithiccapitalcorporateempire. I love your "commit to us and we'll commit to you" mantra.

Now, with regard to lift lines, you'll see them everywhere on a powder day, which I suspect a select number of correspondents use as a benchmark. I've waited 20-25 on the double on a pow day when the wind was blowin. Didn't bother me.

Now, the single. Meybee the problem is no snugglin' with the sweetie? Meybee you shoulda been on the double

BTW, my developing 10-year old simply loved the greens and blues - we spent all day on them and virtually had the place to ourselves. Paradise may beget bragging rights, but the Birdland can equally be paradise to those who don't need to brag!

Sign me,
Free Agent.

Keep up the OUTSTANDING WORK Eric, staff and owners!

 

[neil]

<insert MRG snowboard war here>

 

[riverc0il]

Why is it "totally off the mark"? MRG jacks up holiday prices to limit crowds. As a co-op where the shareholders typically have season passes, this is what the owners want.

Everyone jacks up the price on the holidays. What about that tells you anything else? How do you know most shareholders typically have season passes? I don't nor do I know the stats on how many shareholders have season passes. But most of the shareholders I know have Mad Cards. A lot of mid-week only season pass holders probably are not happy about the higher weekend rates.... Lots of conjecture on your part and from what I have seen, I don't think you are seeing the entire picture.