2010-11 Ticket Prices

[riverc0il]

I do think the infrastructure argument is valid. The ONLY reason MRG gets a pass is because of the terrain. If you put the exact same infrastructure at Bolton Valley, a place that averages even more snow than MRG, you'd expect to pay $40.

Totally agree now that you are saying MRG gets a pass due to the terrain. My impression was you were using infrastructure as your sole base of criteria for MRG pricing, which I think would be unfair in exclusion of what makes the mountain special: its terrain and character.

And I misunderstood your previous post regarding the pass holder issue you had. You were in fact just proposing an experience in the liftline that was not all roses. My issue and subsequent posts were a misreading that you were suggesting pass holders at MRG have a sense of entitlement. It appears I misread and had a misunderstanding in that you had an experience with a single passholder that had a sense of entitlement and were not in fact generalizing all shareholders have a sense of entitlement. My bad on that misunderstanding.

:beer:

 

[billski]

More prices

Holiday rate, adult, all day, walk up window rate

Last year, Resort Name, This year
51 Crotched 54
59 Ragged 64
68 Sunapee 70
68 Bromley 69
66 Smuggs 68
64 Jiminy 65

They will all go into my table in November. This year I'm going to calculate the 5-year increase and then compare it to the CPI and my salary decrease! Should be pretty shocking

What's up with Ragged big jump?

I never noticed that stores in Burlington and Montpelier sell $52 discount vouchers to Smuggs. Is that new, or have I been napping again?

 

[hammer]

Holiday rate, adult, all day, walk up window rate

Last year, Resort Name, This year
51 Crotched 54
59 Ragged 64
68 Sunapee 70
68 Bromley 69
66 Smuggs 68
64 Jiminy 65

They will all go into my table in November. This year I'm going to calculate the 5-year increase and then compare it to the CPI and my salary decrease! Should be pretty shocking

What's up with Ragged big jump?

I never noticed that stores in Burlington and Montpelier sell $52 discount vouchers to Smuggs. Is that new, or have I been napping again?

Really...for such a jump at Ragged I'd expect a faster lift on Spear...

Even Crotched is a bit much for what you get.

Hope that there will be good deals on Liftopia.

 

[billski]

I am really looking forward to the Vail and Stowe rates. They were at 97 and 89 respectively. Real Thriller coming....

And please, my annual disclaimer. I do this just for shock value and because holiday rates are a little easier to compare than weekend peak rates - some resorts tend to mix up the offerings skewing the results. You can extrapolate downwards if you like. I prefer to hunt for deals instead. Rest assured that I almost never, never, never pay these prices except in the most desperate of circumstances. There's a saying, "If you paid full price, you didn't look hard enough."

These numbers are for entertainment value only.

 

[hammer]

I am really looking forward to the Vail and Stowe rates. They were at 97 and 89 respectively. Real Thriller coming....

And please, my annual disclaimer. I do this just for shock value and because holiday rates are a little easier to compare than weekend peak rates - some resorts tend to mix up the offerings skewing the results. You can extrapolate downwards if you like. I prefer to hunt for deals instead. Rest assured that I almost never, never, never pay these prices except in the most desperate of circumstances. There's a saying, "If you paid full price, you didn't look hard enough."

These numbers are for entertainment value only.

Buying lift tickets at full price is kind of like buying a car at MSRP...if the demand is high enough you just have to but if you do your research most of the time you don't.

 

[billski]

Food for thought:

CPI Inflation: 1 year: 2%, 5 years, 12%

Mass. Non-farm labor 12-month pay increase 0.6%
VT. Non-farm labor 12-month pay increase -0.7%
CT. Non-farm labor 12-month pay increase -0.1%

 

[snoseek]

Good luck finding a discount for a one day ticket at Vail. I like skiing Vail but would only ski there with a pass or a discount. The only discount I ever came across was passholders getting me one of their discounts. They only get like four per year I beleive. Steamboat and Telluride are really tough also. The good stuff out there is at the smaller resorts, the price is dramatically cheaper also.

Vails break even rate with the Epic pass must be like 7 days.

 

[billski]

Good luck finding a discount for a one day ticket at Vail.

People call the ticket price at Vail ridiculous, but given the vast amount of terrain and snow and trail quality it's really a good value, compared, acre for acre, lift for lift with most other areas.

Comparing Vail to Stowe just for yucks, skiing-wise only, there are probably five Stowes within Vail. 485 vs 5,000 acres for 8 bucks more.

The place where it gets ridiculous is in lodging and food.

 

[deadheadskier]

Really...for such a jump at Ragged I'd expect a faster lift on Spear...

Even Crotched is a bit much for what you get.

Hope that there will be good deals on Liftopia.

My understanding in talking with a few folks at Ragged last season is that with the credit market being what it is, getting financing for new lifts is tough. With Ragged having a history of near collapse, they'd probably have to show some very strong financials to get a bank to hop on board with what would probably be a $4M lift.

Since the Utah based parent company took over, the mountain has seen increased skier visits every year. I think $64 is a gamble. If I were day pass purchasor, I'd probably be more inclined to spend $66 and ski Cannon.

We'll see how it shakes out. The Spear lift definitely does suck. In my dreams its a HSQ and Showboat underneath it is the best seeded bump run in Southern NH.

 

[Puck it]

My understanding in talking with a few folks at Ragged last season is that with the credit market being what it is, getting financing for new lifts is tough. With Ragged having a history of near collapse, they'd probably have to show some very strong financials to get a bank to hop on board with what would probably be a $4M lift.

Since the Utah based parent company took over, the mountain has seen increased skier visits every year. I think $64 is a gamble. If I were day pass purchasor, I'd probably be more inclined to spend $66 and ski Cannon.

We'll see how it shakes out. The Spear lift definitely does suck. In my dreams its a HSQ and Showboat underneath it is the best seeded bump run in Southern NH.

They really should make the culvert pipe go all the way across the run.

 

[deadheadskier]

They really should make the culvert pipe go all the way across the run.

burying that stream there and on Flying Yankee should definitely happen. They have to blow a crazy volume of snow to cover those two sections of trail up.

 

[Puck it]

burying that stream there and on Flying Yankee should definitely happen. They have to blow a crazy volume of snow to cover those two sections of trail up.

Forgot that it ran across Flying Yankee too. That is a good run when it is bumped up. That was a few years ago.

 

[hammer]

My understanding in talking with a few folks at Ragged last season is that with the credit market being what it is, getting financing for new lifts is tough. With Ragged having a history of near collapse, they'd probably have to show some very strong financials to get a bank to hop on board with what would probably be a $4M lift.

Since the Utah based parent company took over, the mountain has seen increased skier visits every year. I think $64 is a gamble. If I were day pass purchasor, I'd probably be more inclined to spend $66 and ski Cannon.

We'll see how it shakes out. The Spear lift definitely does suck. In my dreams its a HSQ and Showboat underneath it is the best seeded bump run in Southern NH.

FWIW SkiNH passes are $53 for Ragged and $43 for Crotched...and they are good on weekends and holidays.

 

[SKITODIE]

From what I see, most destination resorts want you to book in advance, waaay in advance, and bundle in tickets with the deal in many cases. So the variable rates would only affect riff-raff like me who don't decide until the last minute. I think the first stab at variable rates is Liftopia, and resorts are experimenting.

Raising rates really goes against the grain of tried-and-true marketing - you can always discount down, but raising prices is usually a no-no. Kinda like my salary... :-?

I am new here, and own a hotel/lodge In Lake Placid/Saranac Lake. I would have to say, as an owner of a resort... you are correct. The issue is the Mountains and their budgets, they no longer GIVE away the tickets to hotels, so it is more difficult for a resort to offer an amazing rate and not have a loss. Book in advance means quanity for the hotel, which in exchange justifies the loss, bc you break even. If only the mountains thought that way. We try to bundle up what ever we would want in a stay, make it worth the trip and fun. We WILL give last minute deals this year for bookings bc, most who REALLY ski, dont book in advance, they book when and where it snows... I think I would gain a valued guest by booking this way. Thats the difference between small and big business though...

 

[billski]

I am new here, and own a hotel/lodge In Lake Placid/Saranac Lake. I would have to say, as an owner of a resort... you are correct. The issue is the Mountains and their budgets, they no longer GIVE away the tickets to hotels, so it is more difficult for a resort to offer an amazing rate and not have a loss. Book in advance means quanity for the hotel, which in exchange justifies the loss, bc you break even. If only the mountains thought that way. We try to bundle up what ever we would want in a stay, make it worth the trip and fun. We WILL give last minute deals this year for bookings bc, most who REALLY ski, dont book in advance, they book when and where it snows... I think I would gain a valued guest by booking this way. Thats the difference between small and big business though...

Good perspective. What is interesting is the enlightened resorts that allow you to purchase your tickets off-site at a slight discount. I just spoke with a hotel in Sandy UT yesterday about exactly that- they have them. In the northeast, it's usually at the ski shops closer to the metro areas, but I see no reason not to let off-site lodging like yours sell them. It's a win win for you and the mountain. I see off-mountain sales at many hotels in the west, in my direct experience, Colorado, Tahoe and Utah. I have been known to buy my ticket from the hotel desk the night before. It's not a huge savings, but for someone who has not seen a raise in five years, every dollar counts.

I always figured yield management was a well-tuned science both at airlines and hotels. Maybe BnB is different. If you've got openings at the last minute, drop the rate, better than an empty room? If you anticipate a full house or expect high demand, keep the rate high. Kinda like Priceline without the Priceline?

 

[SKITODIE]

Good perspective. What is interesting is the enlightened resorts that allow you to purchase your tickets off-site at a slight discount. I just spoke with a hotel in Sandy UT yesterday about exactly that- they have them. In the northeast, it's usually at the ski shops closer to the metro areas, but I see no reason not to let off-site lodging like yours sell them. It's a win win for you and the mountain. I see off-mountain sales at many hotels in the west, in my direct experience, Colorado, Tahoe and Utah. I have been known to buy my ticket from the hotel desk the night before. It's not a huge savings, but for someone who has not seen a raise in five years, every dollar counts.

I always figured yield management was a well-tuned science both at airlines and hotels. Maybe BnB is different. If you've got openings at the last minute, drop the rate, better than an empty room? If you anticipate a full house or expect high demand, keep the rate high. Kinda like Priceline without the Priceline?

Yes, As I said, they no longer GIVE them away, meaning say last year lift to WF was $79, hotel incentive was $72--- seriously. We ski UT every year and buy our ticket at the base of the Canyon (Sandy), great deals, but there is more of a market there, way higher demand. Lift prices at the mountain are less than the North east regular, which still blows me away! Shops can do that, lower cut the price. If a hotel in the northeast undersells a ticket with out a bundle or just on the fly, the mountain will no longer give your establishment tickets, which then kills your business and black balls you.
We havent posted our specials yet, waiting for the pricelist (posted and unoffic. post on this forum), but are going to move forward and offer 69-79 a person/ticket/night with a bunch of extras. Either way, it's a deal. As I said, the business may have a loss, but we love to see avid skiers and guests. It's the long haul a small business looks for.
As for your second statement, openings drop the rate... for sure, rather full than empty! Thats high season, which is summer here in LP. Our policy in winter, keep it low, all of the time, don't hustle anyone, thats shady. The deal is the deal, last minute or 5 months in advance. We post specials when we are low occupancy, but really not specials, just what we have anyway or what you would get if you called. Have to promote to get business, but it works out for everyone. And yes, holidays, peak, it is demand, as you said, like priceline... with out captain Kirk

 

[riverc0il]

What's up with Ragged big jump?

I never noticed that stores in Burlington and Montpelier sell $52 discount vouchers to Smuggs. Is that new, or have I been napping again?

Bill- You've been napping! Shocking from a discount skier such as yourself! I think the off site sales are a $15 discount. I need to investigate if they can be used any time or are only good same day. If they can be used any day, it would be worth picking one or two up in advanced if I have a hole in my discount pack for Smuggs. Same day won't work because shops aren't going to open much earlier than the mountain and none of the discount locations are near Smuggs (i.e. not a good option on a powder day if it is same day!).

Ragged: Who knows about that jump. They were already over priced, IMO. Collusion generally only happens behind closed doors. But just don't wink at your competitor and the sky is the limit (as long as customers keep paying that going rate. Going as in going through the roof!).

Ski areas can keep up with the Jones's and stay competitive as long as they don't jump too high each season. In other words, comparing quality of NH areas, Ragged is significantly over priced for its product. But it is a pretty similar price to many other big names so folks will likely assume it is in the same league. And less priced than the most expensive such as Loon and BW so perhaps even a bargain. Not our way of thinking but to the average skier actually paying walk up... I doubt they are going to loose many customers because that is the going rate for a lift ticket these days.

 

[billski]

Truthfully. Smuggs has not been high on my hit list in recent years but I do enjoy sharing deals.

All the vouchers I've ever picked up in shops, and that includes a lot of ski93. Have been good all season. Sometimes there are blackout dates but they are printed on the voucher. I usually just call the shop to check.
Bill

Bill- You've been napping! Shocking from a discount skier such as yourself! I think the off site sales are a $15 discount. I need to investigate if they can be used any time or are only good same day. If they can be used any day, it would be worth picking one or two up in advanced if I have a hole in my discount pack for Smuggs. Same day won't work because shops aren't going to open much earlier than the mountain and none of the discount locations are near Smuggs (i.e. not a good option on a powder day if it is same day!).

Ragged: Who knows about that jump. They were already over priced, IMO. Collusion generally only happens behind closed doors. But just don't wink at your competitor and the sky is the limit (as long as customers keep paying that going rate. Going as in going through the roof!).

Ski areas can keep up with the Jones's and stay competitive as long as they don't jump too high each season. In other words, comparing quality of NH areas, Ragged is significantly over priced for its product. But it is a pretty similar price to many other big names so folks will likely assume it is in the same league. And less priced than the most expensive such as Loon and BW so perhaps even a bargain. Not our way of thinking but to the average skier actually paying walk up... I doubt they are going to loose many customers because that is the going rate for a lift ticket these days.

 

[frozencorn]

Good luck finding a discount for a one day ticket at Vail. I like skiing Vail but would only ski there with a pass or a discount. The only discount I ever came across was passholders getting me one of their discounts. They only get like four per year I beleive. Steamboat and Telluride are really tough also. The good stuff out there is at the smaller resorts, the price is dramatically cheaper also.

Vails break even rate with the Epic pass must be like 7 days.

Used to be able to snag 2-for-1 midweek a few years back with a coupon my buddies out there got at Arby's of all places. Of course, you had to go to Arby's but small price to pay for half-price Vail.

 

[billski]

are going to move forward and offer 69-79 a person/ticket/night with a bunch of extras. Either way, it's a deal. As I said, the business may have a loss, but we love to see avid skiers and guests.

You are crazy. I like deals maybe more than most, but I need all you guys in the ski business to stay IN business.