Ski 3 - WF, Gore, Bell

[marcski]

The Ski3 is interesting...but for the fact that I am not a fan of Belle at all. So, doesn't really appeal to me. What is the Highmont terrain like? Is there any continuous vert over there?

Harv, I'll keep an eye out for you on Sunday.

 

[ScottySkis]

The Ski3 is interesting...but for the fact that I am not a fan of Belle at all. So, doesn't really appeal to me. What is the Highmont terrain like? Is there any continuous vert over there?

Harv, I'll keep an eye out for you on Sunday.

+1: And most snow fall and no snow conditions being skiied off quickly on weekend hill which is so so fun is less then 20 miles from Bell.

 

[JimG.]

I disagree. I think this will introduce all three mountains to new people. The Hudson Valley and NY metro Gore and WF passholders might be inclined to spend a little more cash for the pass for Catskill day trips to Belleayre. Even when I had season passes for Gore/WF I still hit the Catskills a handful of times per season. Maybe some southern VT skiers who daytrip Belleayre might decide to give Gore and WF a try because of the value.

I also think ORDA gives this pass many years to work. If Belleayre gets the planned upgrades and expansion the pass will have even greater value.

I was talking more about raising the price...but making upgrades to Belleayre before doing so would certainly be the best way to raise them.

 

[ScottySkis]

I was talking more about raising the price...but making upgrades to Belleayre before doing so would certainly be the best way to raise them.

Upgrades yes, that would be good for everyone.

 

[BenedictGomez]

I disagree. I think this will introduce all three mountains to new people. The Hudson Valley and NY metro Gore and WF passholders might be inclined to spend a little more cash for the pass for Catskill day trips to Belleayre. Even when I had season passes for Gore/WF I still hit the Catskills a handful of times per season. Maybe some southern VT skiers who daytrip Belleayre might decide to give Gore and WF a try because of the value.

IMO, that's largely a pipedream. For the life of me, I have no idea why anyone in Albany, etc... would ski at Belleayre instead of Gore, other than perhaps 1 day a year for ***** and giggles. But the number of Bell skiers on a 3-pass that will now be drawn to Gore and Whiteface will dwarf that sum.

If I had a pass to Bellayre, Gore, and Whiteface, I would be skiing virtually exclusively at Gore or Whiteface, even living where I do in New Jersey. On longer trips I'd go to Vermont, and if there were times when the drive were an issue and I could only daytrip to the Catskills, I'd rather spend a few dollars and BOGO Plattekill or Hunter than ski at Belleayre.

FWIW, the people I knew that skied at Bell from NYC, did so during the days of "BOGO Madness", and havent ski there much now that that doesnt exist anymore. I'd be very interested to know what Belleayres total skier visit metric comes out to this year, as my assumption is that while last year is not an appropriate comp, it will be down versus the few years prior. I'd be fascinated to see the financials for all 3 hills.

 

[x10003q]

IMO, that's largely a pipedream. For the life of me, I have no idea why anyone in Albany, etc... would ski at Belleayre instead of Gore, other than perhaps 1 day a year for ***** and giggles.

I should have been more specific - from about Kingston south to the NY metro. I agree nobody from Albany will be going to Belleayre. But that was not what I was refering to. Kingston to Gore is about 2:15, Kingston to Belleayre is about :45. That is a big difference in time and gas.

But the number of Bell skiers on a 3-pass that will now be drawn to Gore and Whiteface will dwarf that sum.If I had a pass to Bellayre, Gore, and Whiteface, I would be skiing virtually exclusively at Gore or Whiteface, even living where I do in New Jersey.

Not everybody has the money/time to spend every weekend at Gore/WF. If you are talking about day tripping to Gore or even WF from the NY metro area, you are one of the few. I am a little over three hours from Gore and I will never day trip Gore. I also have kids and I would not day trip them longer than the 2 hours it takes to get to Plattekill. As I said, when I had a season pass at Gore, we would still day trip to the Catskills when we couldn't get to Gore.

On longer trips I'd go to Vermont, and if there were times when the drive were an issue and I could only daytrip to the Catskills, I'd rather spend a few dollars and BOGO Plattekill or Hunter than ski at Belleayre. FWIW, the people I knew that skied at Bell from NYC, did so during the days of "BOGO Madness", and havent ski there much now that that doesnt exist anymore. I'd be very interested to know what Belleayres total skier visit metric comes out to this year, as my assumption is that while last year is not an appropriate comp, it will be down versus the few years prior. I'd be fascinated to see the financials for all 3 hills.

If I had a 3 pass available when I had my Gore/WF pass I would have certainly skied Belleayre.

 

[abc]

IMO, that's largely a pipedream. For the life of me, I have no idea why anyone in Albany, etc... would ski at Belleayre instead of Gore, other than perhaps 1 day a year for ***** and giggles. But the number of Bell skiers on a 3-pass that will now be drawn to Gore and Whiteface will dwarf that sum.

I don't know how much experience you have in running a ski mountain. I freely admit I have none.

But the way I see it, their strategy is not to pull anyone from Albany but to entice non-pass holder from the south to start thinking about getting a pass. People who ski Bell often but not quite regular enough to buy a pass, but spend a weekend in WF or Gore without pass. They might be tempted to get a 3-in-1 pass because now they can use it on the "big mountains"!

That's why the hyperthetical Hunter-Killington pass would be a killer. Because for every Catskill skier who doesn't buy a Catskill pass, they're spending some of the skiing time in a big mountain somewhere north, randomly. Find the right combo, some of them might bite!

Ski pass sale is not neccessarily a zero-sum game.

 

[witch hobble]

Yeah, that pizzed me off huge. Nothing like a government entity slitting the throats of private businesses.

Whoa.......Nellie! Holy hyperbolic metaphor or metaphoric hyperbole or something. Far more like a slow poisoning. Or cancer maybe if you must be so morbid.

I think combo passes like this and the NH one (Cannon, WV, BW, Cranmore) are probably gonna shake out as beneficial to the skiing public in general. I guess we'll see. Are there VT combos available? Jay/Burke.

 

[dmc]

Okay I will amit that because I want Platty to success and someday look like Elk growing over the year

Be careful what you wish for..

 

[BenedictGomez]

But the way I see it, their strategy is not to pull anyone from Albany but to entice non-pass holder from the south to start thinking about getting a pass. People who ski Bell often but not quite regular enough to buy a pass, but spend a weekend in WF or Gore without pass. They might be tempted to get a 3-in-1 pass because now they can use it on the "big mountains"!

If I were Belleayre management, I'd want the people who ski "often but not quite enough" to justify a pass to stay that way. The last thing I'd want is my loyal customers who ski almost enough to warrant a full blown season pass, to now have a "free" option to spend as many ski days as they want at mountains that are 10x better than Belleayre, and are just a mere 1 hour or 2 hour additional drive. I may be wrong, but I still view this as a bad business decision.

Far more like a slow poisoning. Or cancer maybe if you must be so morbid.

Death by 1000 cuts?

 

[oakapple]

Nothing like a government entity slitting the throats of private businesses.

Hunter, Windham and Plattekill have been whining for years that Belleayre was going to put them out of business. Hasn't happened yet.

 

[dmc]

Hunter, Windham and Plattekill have been whining for years that Belleayre was going to put them out of business. Hasn't happened yet.

The exposure of Belleayre's predatory business practices using our tax money against private businesses - may be the reason why.

Even Plattekill joined the conversation after the Belleayre BOGO... They stand to be hurt more badly by this than the mighty Hunter or Windham.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Hunter, Windham and Plattekill have been whining for years that Belleayre was going to put them out of business. Hasn't happened yet.

Hunter and Windham were definitely hurt by Belleayre's practices, and definitely did complain about it (as they should), but they both have the scale and a better product to remain in business.

Plattekill, however, is small enough and geographically located in such a way that it could most definitely be put out of business by unfair competitive practices.

 

[dmc]

http://www.dailyfreeman.com/articles/2011/01/06/news/doc4d252349602d1366541341.txt

 

[oakapple]

All you've done is provided links to the whining, not demonstrated that Bellayre has actually "cut their throats" or threatens to do so.

If it were up to me, New York State wouldn't be in the ski business. However, it is written into the state constitution and practically impossible to alter. If they're going to be in that business, it does mean competing with other local ski areas. Those other areas have a lot to offer that Belleayre can't or won't, so their complaints strike me as off-base and selfish.

Sure, if you're Hunter you'd rather be the only game around. As a skier, I'd rather have more options, not fewer.

 

[BenedictGomez]

http://www.dailyfreeman.com/articles/2011/01/06/news/doc4d252349602d1366541341.txt

But it was even worse than that.

It wasnt just that deal in that article. They had for several years completely papered the market with Belleayre BOGOs. If you were a value skier/rider, and you knew where to look, you'd practically trip and fall over on all the free Belleayre tickets.

 

[dmc]

Sure, if you're Hunter you'd rather be the only game around. As a skier, I'd rather have more options, not fewer.

All they wanted was fair competition that was not funded by our NYS taxes...
Belleayre wasn't practicing fair business practices... Simple as that..

Nobody wanted anything(Belleayre) to shut down so the could be the "only game around"...
Everybody knows that business begets business...

 

[dmc]

But it was even worse than that.

It wasnt just that deal in that article. They had for several years completely papered the market with Belleayre BOGOs. If you were a value skier/rider, and you knew where to look, you'd practically trip and fall over on all the free Belleayre tickets.

I've NEVER paid for a Belleayre lift ticket...

 

[ScottySkis]

Be careful what you wish for..

I know more business would bring more people, maybe they have more trails to cut. And Elk ski conditions are usually pretty good all day on weekends.

 

[dmc]

I know more business would bring more people, maybe they have more trails to cut. And Elk ski conditions are usually pretty good all day on weekends.

Cut trails on the glades? Why would you want that?

Too much popularity will change Plattekill... Guaranteed...