Utah: How bad can it be?

gregnye said:

It's amazing that the public transportation is considered "good" in America just by existing. And this is coming from someone who works at a transit agency, who has driven a 40 foot and 60 foot city transit bus through city streets.

I found Utah's ski busses to be too small, overcrowded and infrequent. It is amazing that there is a bus: yes! However for a skiing destination as close as it is to a major city, there should be a train or a more frequent/ faster connection. Just look at the Alps or Europe for inspiration.

While Utah continues to run their ancient busses, Denver has already installed a train all the way to the airport (which by the way is really far from the city center). Nice try Utah, but you still are second best

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OMG!! I was going to say something about the poor Park City busses, and share some of my woeful experiences of it, but feared people would think it was just piling on.

I was dependent on it for a whole week. In Europe and many other places, this would be fine and no problem.

Here - bus drivers didn't even know their own routes!! The stops are not displayed on the LED signs (I mean, c'mon you have an LED sign right there, why not use it?) nor did the bus verbally announce the stops, so as a newcomer in the mostly pitch-black environment of night which is 90% of the trip, you had no idea where you were, what stop this was, how many stops away yours might be to pull the "stop request" cord, or even a confirmation of what direction your bus was heading in.

Busses wouldn't come forever, then suddenly 3 buses show up all ganged together.

The bus from Canyons makes stops at Park City hotels, great, but suddenly at "3pm or something" (and no one and no driver could tell you exactly where or how or when this happens) suddenly the bus coming from the Canyons ski area switches routes to become an express that skips all the hotel stops. PERFECT! When it's primary goal - you'd think - would be to handle the skier rush coming off the mountain at 4pm last chair. Again, no bus driver could explain how that worked, or where the tourist should go now, to get back to their major hotel.

I once spent TWO HOURS trying to get back from skiing, on a crowded bus in sweaty ski clothes, due to all the various incompetences of their transit system. Including something that happened shockingly frequently in my short stay - the bus would suddenly veer off course unannounced - to unknown parts of the city - to drive by the HOUSE of the next bus driver - to pick him/her up as they changed shifts. FROM THEIR HOUSE! This happened all the time. What is this - a school bus route??

Trapped. Dependent. Unreliable. Never again. But hey - when you don't have a good apres ski scene with real beer - spending your post-ski hours on sweaty over-crowded bus is the "oh-well-might-as-well", alcohol-free way to experience the Utah apres-ski scene. Not my best daily apres ski experiences.

Let me just say - the MooserWirt this was NOT!!

Seriously, don't even offer the transit service if you're not going to be reliable enough to be used. Not impressed, like so much of the rest of my stay. Yet they feel they can charge St Moritz prices for Okefenokee level service. Because they know no better, but think they do.

Doesn't it just sound like I'm dying to get back here again?? Who wouldn't?

Teleskier said:

Doesn't it just sound like I'm dying to get back here again?? Who wouldn't?

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You maybe?

I mean, given just last year in the below post you said you'd never want to ski in Utah in the first place due to moral reasons, the lack of ski culture, the fact you didnt think it would be fun, and that you'd rank Utah in "very last" place out of all major North American ski destinations etc..

And yet you went anyway! And greatly succeeded in finding all of your (ignorant) preconceived notions.

LULZ

Teleskier said:

There was only one of the passes I investigated that contained Utah locations.

Furthermore, I had collected a list of the almost 80 destinations that the passes I was investigating went to. And ranked them all. Based on my - yes my - desirability factor for where I'd want to spend my time and money.

And the fact of the matter is that - for me - all the three UT entries were at the very bottom of that ranked destination list (for me).

If you want to call me out - in fact I'm calling myself out - it is that in order to give you the 'out' that I wasn't excluding Utah on purpose, I 'excused' my 'oversight' of Utah on a 'typo'. It wasn't. I was being overly polite (cultural difference from you I'm sure).

The fact of the matter is that - for me - Utah would be at the very bottom of MY travel list and thus ski list - being the very last of all the other great North American ski destinations that I would personally visit.

This would be for a host of personal and ethical reasons (that would be its own 'impolite' albeit political thread) for where I personally would want to spend and "reward to" my travel dollars, and to a lesser degree, to where I also think would be the most fun and more closely match what I happen to like in any given ski culture.

From your attitudes you expressed here, you probably fit right in to Utah (whereas many of my diverse friends would not), so I can see why Utah is a personal favorite for you. To each their own.

We all get to travel where we want.

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This was my last experience with Utah (two years ago):

Got a reasonably priced Southwest flight to SLC.

Found a very inexpensive Subaru wagon rental from the airport for four days.

Stayed in a very inexpensive but serviceable hotel in Murray, about 25 minutes from Snowbird.

Met a couple of friends who used to work at Snowbird for skiing in Snowbird and dinner in SLC. The food was great, and I had two of the best ski days I've ever had, replete with knee-deep, fluffy powder over incredible terrain. I think those two days are my largest vertical days ever.

On the third day, I came down with the flu.

My point is, Utah is a miserable flu-ridden miasma. I don't understand why anyone would choose its pathogenic air over Vermont's pristine, disease-free atmosphere.

Skied Snowbird today. It was off the charts! But I was here last year and you can see rocks, that were covered last year.

Brighton was amazing today. Powder Mtn will be amazing tomorrow. My beer tasted great. We have a house rental for far cheaper then a hotel, so we cooked dinmer.
I love UT!

Sent from my SM-G930F using AlpineZone mobile app

But, but, but..... there's NO train!!!

You troglodytes just dont understand that no fun may be had without a train!

Well lets see. Yes staying on the mt can be expensive, more so at Alta due to limited rooms than Snowbird so you have to stay in town for a deal. But the bus up the Canyon is good or you can rent a jeep..not a car and do it your self. Even if it dumps you can park and take the bus up. The skiing will be good the nightlife not so much. So ski until your totally exhausted , then you wont care. This year was rough but has bounced back. Want nightlife and things to do then PC is it but the skiing is no where near as good. Want to get away from it all...Ogden. But the skiing isn't as good as LCC or BCC but usually better than PC. One thing you wont deal with that you have to in CO is the shlep getting to the MT's. I70 is insane and most resorts in CO are much farther than in Utah. Want it all...Jackson.Easy to get to...good town...insane mountain. See you there next season.

gregnye said:

It's amazing that the public transportation is considered "good" in America just by existing. And this is coming from someone who works at a transit agency, who has driven a 40 foot and 60 foot city transit bus through city streets.

I found Utah's ski busses to be too small, overcrowded and infrequent. It is amazing that there is a bus: yes! However for a skiing destination as close as it is to a major city, there should be a train or a more frequent/ faster connection. Just look at the Alps or Europe for inspiration.

While Utah continues to run their ancient busses, Denver has already installed a train all the way to the airport (which by the way is really far from the city center). Nice try Utah, but you still are second best

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I agree with your larger point re: public transp. in this county.

And I don't mean to argue with you or sound like I'm rabidly defending SLC as a skiing destination.

BUT I disagree with the rest of this. True, Denver finally got their train to the airport, about 20 years late, but they got it. That's been an issue forever. But you take it to Union Station, and then what? Amtrak to Winter Park?

I've taken a train to ski Aspen (in the 20th century). We had to go all the way to Glenwood Springs. They do have good bus coverage in Summit County, but that's no different than SLC.

I bet Frisco is ten times the charming ski town SLC is, but how do you get there? Car, private shuttle or (gulp) greyhound is all I can find.

SLC has a light rail system straight from the airport to anywhere you want to go, and beat Denver to that goal by a couple years. The bus system up into the canyons is great, and no way you'd ever have a train going up in there unless it was built in the Civil War era (before the automobile). Want to ski Pow Mow? Front runner to Ogden, bus on up. Don't even have to go all the way into SLC.

And of course due to Geography everything is that much closer together, making the pub tran options really convenient in that your not giving up that much time and convenience vs. your own car.

The one downside to SLC is that, as a city, it's not very charming at all, especially out in the areas where it's cheap to stay you have easy access to the bus routes. Like a poster above said, lots of chains, and you're basically staying on the side of a big four lane road in between the car wash and the big box store.

Bohemian Brewery is an oasis in that regard.

I think my next big trip I'll try Frisco. That place looks fun.

Abominable said:

I bet Frisco is ten times the charming ski town SLC is, but how do you get there?

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I wouldn't call Frisco or Silverthorne "charming" really, but they're small & conveniently located. Last year was the first time I stayed there, but you could tell construction has/had been booming in the last 5 to 10 years. Probably a good place for a young couple to put down for 5 years.

Well this thread took an entertaining turn...

sankaty said:

This was my last experience with Utah (two years ago):
On the third day, I came down with the flu.

My point is, Utah is a miserable flu-ridden miasma. I don't understand why anyone would choose its pathogenic air over Vermont's pristine, disease-free atmosphere.

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I know you're joking, but recently there actually have been more instances of smog in Salt Lake City. So in the future this might actually be true, meanwhile the residents of Utah will continue to be ignorant towards their impact on the environment.

gregnye said:

the residents of Utah will continue to be ignorant towards their impact on the environment.

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If only Utahns were as enlightened as you are, the world would truly be a better place.

gregnye said:

I know you're joking, but recently there actually have been more instances of smog in Salt Lake City. So in the future this might actually be true, meanwhile the residents of Utah will continue to be ignorant towards their impact on the environment.

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Yes, Utah has bad inversion thanks to the geography. As to a generalization of Utah residents being ignorant, you are wrong on that one. A good many (probably a majority) actually WANT action taken, but those in power are not reacting. In large part due to the three or four large refineries in the valley and their owners' lobbying.

Abominable said:

I agree with your larger point re: public transp. in this county.

And I don't mean to argue with you or sound like I'm rabidly defending SLC as a skiing destination.

BUT I disagree with the rest of this. True, Denver finally got their train to the airport, about 20 years late, but they got it. That's been an issue forever. But you take it to Union Station, and then what? Amtrak to Winter Park?

I've taken a train to ski Aspen (in the 20th century). We had to go all the way to Glenwood Springs. They do have good bus coverage in Summit County, but that's no different than SLC.

I bet Frisco is ten times the charming ski town SLC is, but how do you get there? Car, private shuttle or (gulp) greyhound is all I can find.

SLC has a light rail system straight from the airport to anywhere you want to go, and beat Denver to that goal by a couple years. The bus system up into the canyons is great, and no way you'd ever have a train going up in there unless it was built in the Civil War era (before the automobile). Want to ski Pow Mow? Front runner to Ogden, bus on up. Don't even have to go all the way into SLC.

And of course due to Geography everything is that much closer together, making the pub tran options really convenient in that your not giving up that much time and convenience vs. your own car.

The one downside to SLC is that, as a city, it's not very charming at all, especially out in the areas where it's cheap to stay you have easy access to the bus routes. Like a poster above said, lots of chains, and you're basically staying on the side of a big four lane road in between the car wash and the big box store.

Bohemian Brewery is an oasis in that regard.

I think my next big trip I'll try Frisco. That place looks fun.

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Agree with this. SLC airport to train to bus to mountain is much easier than DIA to train to train to mountain (I just did both this season and vastly preferred SLC). We only went to WP in CO too.

I was in Park City Fri-Sunday. Fri/Sat was good "east coast skiing". Sunday was over a foot of Utah's finest with upper mountain double blacks, bowls and hike to bowls all in play and in fine shape. Ironically its the same storm that will deliver the Northeast with some powder this week, which hopefully I will get on at some point for a double dip.

So I haven't yet pulled the trigger on my apparently annual mid-April trip to Snowbird yet. Are there still rumors of a May 1st closing? Does anyone have an educated guess as to how the snowpack will hold up? (Looks like it's over 100" base some more snow is on the way too).

Also, am I the only one who is glad that at 9000 feet I'm drinking a low alchohol beer instead of 8% VT 2xIPAs for lunch, especiall on day 1?

LasersInTheTaiga said:

Also, am I the only one who is glad that at 9000 feet I'm drinking a low alchohol beer instead of 8% VT 2xIPAs for lunch, especiall on day 1?

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Yes, yes you are. Personally, I don't like a state to arbitrarily limit how strong the beer I drink is allowed to be.
There are always lower-ABV options available, not just 8% Double IPAs.

LasersInTheTaiga said:

So I haven't yet pulled the trigger on my apparently annual mid-April trip to Snowbird yet. Are there still rumors of a May 1st closing? Does anyone have an educated guess as to how the snowpack will hold up? (Looks like it's over 100" base some more snow is on the way too).

Also, am I the only one who is glad that at 9000 feet I'm drinking a low alchohol beer instead of 8% VT 2xIPAs for lunch, especiall on day 1?

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Hard to say. We just had a great cycle and bases are near 100". We are in a ridge pattern for the next week or so, and then maybe some more snow.

Jcb890 said:

Yes, yes you are. Personally, I don't like a state to arbitrarily limit how strong the beer I drink is allowed to be.
There are always lower-ABV options available, not just 8% Double IPAs.

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I just said day 1 ...

Jcb890 said:

I don't like a state to arbitrarily limit how strong the beer I drink is allowed to be.

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Seriously. It's absolutely moronic. It's not like beer is 80 proof whiskey to begin with.

All I know is if I lived there I'd make the 1 hour pilgrimage to Wyoming every 3 or 4 months and stock up on decent craft beer.