Utah: How bad can it be?

[sankaty]

I'm very hesitant to draw broad conclusions from anybody's anecdotal experiences (especially my own), but of the dozen or so folks from Utah that I've spent a fair amount of time with, literally all of them have been very friendly and kind. I've found in my limited interactions with young LDS folks that they have much more varied views on social issues than I would have expected based on my preconceptions.

I also found that the skiing did not suck, and that outweighs cuisine/libation concerns by a fair amount in my case.

 

[thetrailboss]

From the title I got a different notion of what this thread was about.

I just got back last week from my first visit to Utah.

How bad could it be?

1. Lulled into joining a liberal ski event I wanted to support in a infamously red state, but that was a bust where it turned out to have no one actually skiing in it, so skied alone. Felt like I got bait and switch’ed and gave my money to a place I wouldn’t have otherwise supported. Fool me once…
2. You only find watered-down half-strength ‘kinder-bier’ for après ski - really?
   • Never could tell if you’re better off with bottled beer vs draft beer - since got half strength watered-down beer from both? Locals swore by one or the other - but the 'rule' never held. Always ended up with weak tasteless bad beer.
3. Martinis served in kid’s-sized glasses, as if taken from a doll house? Where are the REAL adult-sized martini glasses? Is this on Candid Camera?? Yet they charge same price as if it was a normal sized adult martini?
4. Cuisine as expensive as Aspen but nowhere near the quality of Aspen (charging Aspen prices for mediocre cowboy cuisine)
5. Not as friendly as other western ski areas, so didn’t hook up with other skiers on the chairs or in the bars - again, skied alone, which is first time this ever happened in skiing many places out west
6. Accosted by no less than 5 Mitt Romney supporters outside SLC convention center on my way to the airport to sign their “get him on ballot” petition. “Since you asked me - Let me tell you about him from my experience of him as Governor of Mass” - “Don’t bother, he’s a Mormon, and that’s enough to get my vote”.
7. Mediocre man-made machine-groomed snow, yet western “no way there’s any good skiing back east” attitude to which you had to say: “You know - right now Vermont has better snow than you here right now” - to their horrified stunned faces. Did I even mention skiing over rocks and roots on your double-blacks here?
8. Spent the week just traversing around the ravines, it seemed 85% of the time you were skate-skiing across flat cat-tracks trying to get around to various lifts, or worse "trails as snow sidewalks" through endless number of other people's trophy homes, to get from Park City to the sole ONE mountain lunch spot that actually had a bar which was in Canyons, etc.
9. If you skied one good section for 5 minutes, it was short and short lived, and always led to the end in the bottom of yet another endless ravine, flat skiing for another 15 minutes, green trails back to the everyone is funneled, way-too-crowded lift (Tombstone lift was aptly named)
10. Bad food, bad beer, bad martinins, bad snow, and filled with Mitt Romney supporting morons (said morons, not mormons)

Yeah - that kind of bad Life is too short to ski Utah.

One less person for me to worry about!

 

[Jully]

I agree with most of this. Utah is overrated. Colorado is still much better. The only places in Utah worth going to are Alta, Snowbird and Snowbasin.
Sure, Utah might get more snow, but Salt Lake City sucks, it's literally just Mcdonalds, Burger King, and Wendy's repeated every 5 blocks.
There are also more chain regulations for cars making it harder to drive to the ski areas.
Flights from the east coast to Salt Lake are more expensive and often require a transfer at Denver anyway, so you might as well just get out and ski Colorado.

There's a reason Colorado has been doing very well economically the past few years. Utah will continue to be lightyears behind unless they change basically everything. And that's not even starting to talk about Utah's politics...

Really confused at the Utah hate. I think both are fairly equivalent, though different from one another I agree. I like Utah because there are fewer crowds, more snow, and honestly I really don't think the mountains are way worse at all - I'd say they're different but equivalent. Snowbird and Alta are incredible and I like both better than the major CO mountains actually. Solitude and Brighton are on the small side but have some incredible terrain and fast lifts. Plenty for a week IMO. Park City has big crowds but is so mammoth that you can escape and you can't get bored there. The only thing PC lacks is Mary Jane level bumps (but honestly everywhere lacks MJ level bumps).

Jet Blue flies direct to SLC which is a smaller airport and easier to navigate (flight was cheaper than my flight to Denver too actually, $230 versus $205). I've been to Utah 4 times now and haven't once stayed in SLC so I can't talk to that at all, but the ski bus from SLC I'd think eliminates a lot of car issues.

I don't consider myself a Utah homer in any sense, but really surprised at how much some folks dislike it. I'm genuinely confused, especially at the mountains being worse. What about them makes them worse?

 

[Teleskier]

I agree with most of this. Utah is overrated. Colorado is still much better. The only places in Utah worth going to are Alta, Snowbird and Snowbasin.
Sure, Utah might get more snow, but Salt Lake City sucks, it's literally just Mcdonalds, Burger King, and Wendy's repeated every 5 blocks.
There are also more chain regulations for cars making it harder to drive to the ski areas.
Flights from the east coast to Salt Lake are more expensive and often require a transfer at Denver anyway, so you might as well just get out and ski Colorado.

There's a reason Colorado has been doing very well economically the past few years. Utah will continue to be lightyears behind unless they change basically everything. And that's not even starting to talk about Utah's politics...

Agreed. I forgot to mention the much cheaper flights to Denver as well, good point, even forgetting that for me the ONE direct Delta flight back from SLC to Boston had to be a midnight red eye flight (which sucked). Delta was no picnic either. And the SLC Delta staff - who some might call Mormon (fake) 'nice'? - GLEEFULLY charged me extra for my same ski bag and ski boots than Delta Boston did on the way there. Their SLC response: "Oh, Boston is famous with us in SLC for wrongly giving the skiing customers too much latitude for their ski equipment." Really??

From its pre-trip reputation, Utah was supposed to have the best snow. Utah was supposed to be so dirt cheap it's the favorite of spring break college students with cheap flights to match. Park City was supposed to have haute cuisine by way of the Sundance crowd (expected higher prices but worthy-of-it cuisine). I found none of these prior Utah expectations to hold true.

Pre-trip, I thought the alcohol situation might be a little verrückt crazy in Utah, but it was much worse than expected. I mean, "it's just a beer", can't you folks just leave that simple beer alone? I mean, we're not talking hard-core whiskey here. All I wanted was one proper beer or one proper drink that visit - none to be found. You felt nickeled and dimed for every ounce. Which was bizarrely measured - mechanically - at every bar by some kind of state-required vacuum pump device. With every bar shelve in front of you locked with shockingly thick bank-vault steel bars as if it were solid gold apt to be stolen at just any moment. Guys - it's a $16 bottle of vodka back home. Treated like gold? Really??

Oh - and I didn't even mention the 'joy' (aka I was truly aghast) of watching the winter Olympics at a Park City restaurant 'bar' with all the Utah locals to the right and left of me making non-stop 'Utah' commentary when Johnny Weir came onto screen. Some crowd. Archie Bunker would be right at home. Suddenly their fear and hatred of the outside world - things like beer - fell into place for me. It might as well have been 1810 again. My money went here to support these people?!?

No matter how you cut it - just the skiing - just the people - just the food - just the drink - just the snow - just the flights - Utah did not "have it."

Give me Aspen Highlands or Telluride or even Beaver Creek any day. Better skiing, better food, better flights, better friendly people, better mountains, better trails, less traverses, less uptight around wine with dinner, and real drinks for when the few times you'd want one, you can have one. Utah was enough to drive one to drink! Even here it makes one sound like an alcoholic, when one just simply wanted ONE but PROPER post-skiing beer.

None of it... no. "Not to be had in Utah."

 

[thetrailboss]

I agree with most of this. Utah is overrated. Colorado is still much better. The only places in Utah worth going to are Alta, Snowbird and Snowbasin.
Sure, Utah might get more snow, but Salt Lake City sucks, it's literally just Mcdonalds, Burger King, and Wendy's repeated every 5 blocks.
There are also more chain regulations for cars making it harder to drive to the ski areas.
Flights from the east coast to Salt Lake are more expensive and often require a transfer at Denver anyway, so you might as well just get out and ski Colorado.

There's a reason Colorado has been doing very well economically the past few years. Utah will continue to be lightyears behind unless they change basically everything. And that's not even starting to talk about Utah's politics...

To each their own.

SLC does have a lot of bad development, but it also has some nice indy restaurants and establishments that are not that hard to find.

If you fly United or Frontier than yes, you will connect in Denver. But not Delta or Southwest.

Honestly, in a general sense, BOTH Colorado and UT are doing very well economically. SLC metro is one of the fastest growing areas in the country. I do agree that UT "politically" has made some very dumb decisions lately.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Really confused at the Utah hate.....I don't consider myself a Utah homer in any sense, but really surprised at how much some folks dislike it. I'm genuinely confused, especially at the mountains being worse. What about them makes them worse?

Well, about 70% of his "skiing post" touched on politics, so I think there's your answer.

I agree with most of this. Utah is overrated. Colorado is still much better. The only places in Utah worth going to are Alta, Snowbird and Snowbasin.

I assume you've never been to Power Mountain. I thought Solitude was really nice too. I liked Park City/Canyons for its' enormity. Even Deer Valley was pretty great, though I liked it least of the 7 Utah areas I've skied.

There's a reason Colorado has been doing very well economically the past few years. Utah will continue to be lightyears behind unless they change basically everything. And that's not even starting to talk about Utah's politics...

Not really sure what you mean by this, the economies of both Colorado and Utah are doing quite well.

 

[asnowmobiler]

You can get “real beer” at the state run stores, very strange indeed but livable if you’re staying in a house and have a place to enjoy it.
The food is very hit or miss,it helps to know people that have been there many times.
Some of the runouts can be a bitch if you’re not familiar enough to know when to carry speed to traverse to the lift or other areas.

 

[Teleskier]

I don't consider myself a Utah homer in any sense, but really surprised at how much some folks dislike it. I'm genuinely confused, especially at the mountains being worse. What about them makes them worse?

I thought it was clear in my post: too many flat cat-track traverses, ending in a long boring green cat-track ravines at the end of every run, spending all morning going across 7+ lifts across 7 ravines just to get the sole lunch spot in time for your lunch reservation (the fact you even need a reservation), skiing through the sidewalks of other people's trophy Canyons houses ad nauseam proffered as 'premiere Utah skiing trails', etc, etc.

No matter where you went, you ended up in yet another long boring ravine traverse. And surprise, surprise, here we are yet again back to crazy-packed Tombstone lift yet-an-f'in-again. Just trying to get to Quicksilver gondie to go across more f'in red-rock ravines.

But to each their own. It did sound as if the majority there on the lifts with me were happiest on the green and shallow blue trails, so perhaps most visitors wouldn't even notice these traverses or 'skiing' those sidewalks between the houses??

And someone here just said, more Utah for them. Congrats. You can have it. You won't catch me there again. Been fooled once, partly due to folks here extolling to virtues of Utah in last year's season pass discussions. I knew better, but gave it a chance anyway. No fault of anyone here, I took my own chance. People value different aspects of different places.

Happily there are many other places in the world with excellent skiing and ski cuisine and ski culture, for the aspects I happen to value and want my dollars to keep alive and support. Utah is not it.

 

[sankaty]

You seem to be drawing very broad conclusions about Utah skiing based on just Park City and Canyons (as far as I can tell), which are my least favorite Utah mountains. The Cottonwood Canyon resorts offer a very different experience.

 

[BenedictGomez]

You seem to be drawing very broad conclusions about Utah skiing based on just Park City and Canyons (as far as I can tell), which are my least favorite Utah mountains.

And Utah in general.
And Mormons in general.
And the state of Utah in general.
And Salt Lake City in general.
And all its' bars and restaurants in general.

 

[kingslug]

Ive been going to Utah for 20 years straight, at least twice a year. Alta, snowbird, solitude. Ive skied all over this country, canada and Europe...Utah is still tops with me. Park city not so much, it has nothing in common with little and Big cottonwood canyons. But you really need to ski these places a lot, hook up with locals,etc to really see what they have to offer. The map readers as they are called dont get to the good stuff simply because they do not know how or where..which is not their fault at all, just lack of knowledge of the place.
As far as beer..bottled beer can be any proof, tap is swill. I dont care about the food so no comment on that. My best skiing has almost all been done there. And where else can you land and be on the mt in 1 hour flat..

 

[sankaty]

And Utah in general.
And Mormons in general.
And the state of Utah in general.
And Salt Lake City in general.
And all its' bars and restaurants in general.

Excellent points.

 

[Abominable]

At the risk of drawing broad conclusions, somehow the words “teleskier“ and “lunch reservation” don’t really jive for me.

What I love about Salt Lake City is the variety. And the public transportation. I don’t know of anywhere else or you can really access so many mountains so easily. And without a car!

Maybe Summit County is somewhat similar in terms of options but most of the Colorado resorts I’ve been to are “destination resorts,”

This is a very strange post. Where did you ski? Also say I did not have any problems long run outs or cat tracks, certainly nothing out of the ordinary when you’re getting around the resort that spans multiple draws.

 

[Scruffy]

From the title I got a different notion of what this thread was about.

I just got back last week from my first visit to Utah.

How bad could it be?

1. Lulled into joining a liberal ski event I wanted to support in a infamously red state, but that was a bust where it turned out to have no one actually skiing in it, so skied alone. Felt like I got bait and switch’ed and gave my money to a place I wouldn’t have otherwise supported. Fool me once…
2. You only find watered-down half-strength ‘kinder-bier’ for après ski - really?
   • Never could tell if you’re better off with bottled beer vs draft beer - since got half strength watered-down beer from both? Locals swore by one or the other - but the 'rule' never held. Always ended up with weak tasteless bad beer.
3. Martinis served in kid’s-sized glasses, as if taken from a doll house? Where are the REAL adult-sized martini glasses? Is this on Candid Camera?? Yet they charge same price as if it was a normal sized adult martini?
4. Cuisine as expensive as Aspen but nowhere near the quality of Aspen (charging Aspen prices for mediocre cowboy cuisine)
5. Not as friendly as other western ski areas, so didn’t hook up with other skiers on the chairs or in the bars - again, skied alone, which is first time this ever happened in skiing many places out west
6. Accosted by no less than 5 Mitt Romney supporters outside SLC convention center on my way to the airport to sign their “get him on ballot” petition. “Since you asked me - Let me tell you about him from my experience of him as Governor of Mass” - “Don’t bother, he’s a Mormon, and that’s enough to get my vote”.
7. Mediocre man-made machine-groomed snow, yet western “no way there’s any good skiing back east” attitude to which you had to say: “You know - right now Vermont has better snow than you here right now” - to their horrified stunned faces. Did I even mention skiing over rocks and roots on your double-blacks here?
8. Spent the week just traversing around the ravines, it seemed 85% of the time you were skate-skiing across flat cat-tracks trying to get around to various lifts, or worse "trails as snow sidewalks" through endless number of other people's trophy homes, to get from Park City to the sole ONE mountain lunch spot that actually had a bar which was in Canyons, etc.
9. If you skied one good section for 5 minutes, it was short and short lived, and always led to the end in the bottom of yet another endless ravine, flat skiing for another 15 minutes, green trails back to the everyone is funneled, way-too-crowded lift (Tombstone lift was aptly named)
10. Bad food, bad beer, bad martinins, bad snow, and filled with Mitt Romney supporting morons (said morons, not mormons)

Yeah - that kind of bad Life is too short to ski Utah.

:lol: This is a serious post? yeah right! If half of this actually happened to you... oh never mind, not worth my time.

 

[Abominable]

At the risk of drawing broad conclusions, somehow the words “teleskier“ and “lunch reservation” don’t really jive for me.

What I love about Salt Lake City is the variety. And the public transportation. I don’t know of anywhere else or you can really access so many mountains so easily. And without a car!

Maybe Summit County is somewhat similar in terms of options but most of the Colorado resorts I’ve been to are “destination resorts,”

This is a very strange post. Where did you ski? Also say I did not have any problems long run outs or cat tracks, certainly nothing out of the ordinary when you’re getting around the resort that spans multiple draws.

Tahoe, forgot about Tahoe for easy access to several areas.

And now I see you went to park city. Never been, due to its reputation as being pretty nothing special

 

[Jully]

I thought it was clear in my post: too many flat cat-track traverses, ending in a long boring green cat-track ravines at the end of every run, spending all morning going across 7+ lifts across 7 ravines just to get the sole lunch spot in time for your lunch reservation (the fact you even need a reservation), skiing through the sidewalks of other people's trophy Canyons houses ad nauseam proffered as 'premiere Utah skiing trails', etc, etc.

No matter where you went, you ended up in yet another long boring ravine traverse. And surprise, surprise, here we are yet again back to crazy-packed Tombstone lift yet-an-f'in-again. Just trying to get to Quicksilver gondie to go across more f'in red-rock ravines.

But to each their own. It did sound as if the majority there on the lifts with me were happiest on the green and shallow blue trails, so perhaps most visitors wouldn't even notice these traverses or 'skiing' those sidewalks between the houses??

And someone here just said, more Utah for them. Congrats. You can have it. You won't catch me there again. Been fooled once, partly due to folks here extolling to virtues of Utah in last year's season pass discussions. I knew better, but gave it a chance anyway. No fault of anyone here, I took my own chance. People value different aspects of different places.

Happily there are many other places in the world with excellent skiing and ski cuisine and ski culture, for the aspects I happen to value and want my dollars to keep alive and support. Utah is not it.

That's Park City, absolutely not for everyone. Canyons especially is filled with traverses. Not my favorite for sure. That said I find the Winter Park traverses way more infuriating. However regardless, beyond Park City/Canyons none of the other Utah areas ski that way. Many with 2000-2500+ continuous vertical, as much or more than any CO area. What about the other mountains made them worse than the CO ones? Or were you only at PC?

 

[TheArchitect]

Edited due to stupidity

 

[gregnye]

What I love about Salt Lake City is the variety. And the public transportation. I don’t know of anywhere else or you can really access so many mountains so easily. And without a car!

It's amazing that the public transportation is considered "good" in America just by existing. And this is coming from someone who works at a transit agency, who has driven a 40 foot and 60 foot city transit bus through city streets.

I found Utah's ski busses to be too small, overcrowded and infrequent. It is amazing that there is a bus: yes! However for a skiing destination as close as it is to a major city, there should be a train or a more frequent/ faster connection. Just look at the Alps or Europe for inspiration.

While Utah continues to run their ancient busses, Denver has already installed a train all the way to the airport (which by the way is really far from the city center). Nice try Utah, but you still are second best

 

[thetrailboss]

I thought it was clear in my post: too many flat cat-track traverses, ending in a long boring green cat-track ravines at the end of every run, spending all morning going across 7+ lifts across 7 ravines just to get the sole lunch spot in time for your lunch reservation (the fact you even need a reservation), skiing through the sidewalks of other people's trophy Canyons houses ad nauseam proffered as 'premiere Utah skiing trails', etc, etc.

No matter where you went, you ended up in yet another long boring ravine traverse. And surprise, surprise, here we are yet again back to crazy-packed Tombstone lift yet-an-f'in-again. Just trying to get to Quicksilver gondie to go across more f'in red-rock ravines.

But to each their own. It did sound as if the majority there on the lifts with me were happiest on the green and shallow blue trails, so perhaps most visitors wouldn't even notice these traverses or 'skiing' those sidewalks between the houses??

And someone here just said, more Utah for them. Congrats. You can have it. You won't catch me there again. Been fooled once, partly due to folks here extolling to virtues of Utah in last year's season pass discussions. I knew better, but gave it a chance anyway. No fault of anyone here, I took my own chance. People value different aspects of different places.

Happily there are many other places in the world with excellent skiing and ski cuisine and ski culture, for the aspects I happen to value and want my dollars to keep alive and support. Utah is not it.

Your problem is that you didn’t know HOW to ski PCMR. A little studying of the trail map and you can plan your day and avoid traversing all day. Admittedly it is very easy to fall into the trap of traversing the area instead of skiing.

You also could have asked here for advice before you went. As you said, a lot of folks ski here and post on AZ.

There’s much more to Utah than PCMR. A hell of a lot more.




Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone

 

[boston_e]

Give me Aspen Highlands or Telluride or even Beaver Creek any day. Better skiing, better food, better flights, better friendly people, better mountains, better trails, less traverses, less uptight around wine with dinner, and real drinks for when the few times you'd want one, you can have one. Utah was enough to drive one to drink! Even here it makes one sound like an alcoholic, when one just simply wanted ONE but PROPER post-skiing beer.

None of it... no. "Not to be had in Utah."

I knew not to take this post seriously when you said that telluride has better flights than Salt Lake City.

Personally, I’ve had much better experiences on average in Utah than Colorado or Tahoe.

Hard to compare beer at any of these places to what we have here in New England. Vermont blows them all away so anything is a step down.