All For One: Effect on the Northeast ski industry?

[thetrailboss]

We may not be POWDR's target audience.

Just like the case with the Ginn Company, we are not.

 

[JimG.]

Just like the case with the Ginn Company, we are not.

And just recently someone asked what happened to all the Burke love.

 

[thetrailboss]

And just recently someone asked what happened to all the Burke love.

I spoke at length with the original trailboss and his wife about Burke this weekend. It was nice seeing them. They are longtime passholders and are very worried about the future. They work in East Burke. They described the operations at the mountain as "disorganized." Why? The focus is on the real estate development. Ginn is keeping the ski area alive...and taking a caretaker role. Nothing moving forward at least from our perspective.

 

[thebigo]

target market?

It seems foolish for any company to completely ignore any market segment. Especially in a volatile industry with stagnant growth and especially a group willing to discuss industry trends when it is 90 degrees outside. It is true that this group may not typically book a room through the resorts lodging line and it is also true that this group may hunt for deals on tickets but are we really not profitable?

It would seem to me that this group is more likely to mention skiing when it is on nobody's mind and also more likely to get our never-ever and not-in-awhile friends back to the slopes. Isnt the future of skiing based on expanding the market rather than canibalizing each others market?

Is there a shift or polarization going on in the industry? One of the things about skiing that I always found unique is that a 20 year old living on ramen could share a chair or a beer with a CEO and they would not judge each other or run out of things to talk about.

Are we reaching a point where ski areas have to either market to the real estate crowd or the hardcore skier crowd?

What mountains would consider us to be their target market?

 

[JimG.]

Are we reaching a point where ski areas have to either market to the real estate crowd or the hardcore skier crowd?

Perhaps; or maybe they hope to keep the area open, just barely, as they sell real estate. Once they make their killing on property, they sell the whole deal.

If that's the plan I doubt anyone will be very happy long term.

 

[Vinny]

...... It is true that this group may not typically book a room through the resorts lodging line and it is also true that this group may hunt for deals on tickets but are we really not profitable?

It would seem to me that this group is more likely to mention skiing when it is on nobody's mind and also more likely to get our never-ever and not-in-awhile friends back to the slopes. Isn't the future of skiing based on expanding the market rather than cannibalizing each others market?

Are we reaching a point where ski areas have to either market to the real estate crowd or the hardcore skier crowd?

A number of good points.

About expanding the market, I agree that the avid skier plays an important part in raising the profile of skiing among a pretty wide audience. In addition to our kids, my wife and I are at least indirectly responsible for quite a number of new skiers who I'm virtually certain would not have gotten into skiing without the extra "push". Our kids have since added friends to the sport, and it balloons on from there. After a while you get a good number of new people adding to the sport. I would think that most everyone on this website has done the same.

Choosing between real estate and "hard core skiers" is a tough call. IMO the real estate gamble in the Northeast ski regions is really a tough way to go without a terrific ski mountain to help sustain it. There isn't enough infrastructure in many of the ski areas to support them as year round destination or "retirement/second home" regions. All the ski resorts are trying their best to be "year 'round" destinations, but who is succeeding at it? Build yet another golf course?

I don't know the answers, but I believe that the mountain should come as a first priority and the real estate could then follow.

 

[Greg]

It seems foolish for any company to completely ignore any market segment. Especially in a volatile industry with stagnant growth and especially a group willing to discuss industry trends when it is 90 degrees outside. It is true that this group may not typically book a room through the resorts lodging line and it is also true that this group may hunt for deals on tickets but are we really not profitable?

It would seem to me that this group is more likely to mention skiing when it is on nobody's mind and also more likely to get our never-ever and not-in-awhile friends back to the slopes. Isnt the future of skiing based on expanding the market rather than canibalizing each others market?

Is there a shift or polarization going on in the industry? One of the things about skiing that I always found unique is that a 20 year old living on ramen could share a chair or a beer with a CEO and they would not judge each other or run out of things to talk about.

Are we reaching a point where ski areas have to either market to the real estate crowd or the hardcore skier crowd?

What mountains would consider us to be their target market?

This is a great and inspiring post.

 

[dmc]

dmc never said it was a raw deal, and he never blamed the mountain because he bought it. He said it was a waste of money for him. And it was.

Yeah... that sucked... We had big plans to ride early and late... Seemed like such a good deal at the time.. Figured I'd ride Early November and Late April through June... Had a house setup for spring like we had done in the last 6 years...

Ended up using it twice at K and once at that place near Mt Washington... Forget the name offhand...

To me these things are a gamble.. Sometimes you get the bear - sometimes the bear gets you... right?

 

[thetrailboss]

Yeah... that sucked... We had big plans to ride early and late... Seemed like such a good deal at the time.. Figured I'd ride Early November and Late April through June... Had a house setup for spring like we had done in the last 6 years...

Ended up using it twice at K and once at that place near Mt Washington... Forget the name offhand...

To me these things are a gamble.. Sometimes you get the bear - sometimes the bear gets you... right?

I think you are talking about Attitash. IMHO Sunday River is better and worth the extra 45 minutes or so...

 

[dmc]

I think you are talking about Attitash. IMHO Sunday River is better and worth the extra 45 minutes or so...

Right... Attitash...

We mainly went to ski Wildcat and have a romantic getaway in NH... It was a great trip...

 

[thetrailboss]

Right... Attitash...

We mainly went to ski Wildcat and have a romantic getaway in NH... It was a great trip...

Absolutely. The MWV is pretty hard to beat...with 6-7 ski areas within a short distance of each other...and 8 if you throw in Bretton Woods.

Attitash is OK. I have not hit it on a good day....scenic place and nice trails.

 

[dmc]

Absolutely. The MWV is pretty hard to beat...with 6-7 ski areas within a short distance of each other...and 8 if you throw in Bretton Woods.

Attitash is OK. I have not hit it on a good day....scenic place and nice trails.

It was a great trip.. We really enjoy Wildcat...
She got to see Mount Washington...
We're going to do it again...