Anyone want to move to VT?

[bdfreetuna]

Yeah you step off the 93/95 corridors and NH and VT are pretty much the same economically. Seacoast NH really only blew up once it became a bedroom area for Boston. Then a couple companies move in and its off to the races.

VT is at least two hours from any major economic center in the region, usually more. Tough to make most businesses work in those conditions.

Took a drive though Keene > Concord > Meredith/Laconia last weekend. I was actually surprised at how vital things appeared between Concord and Laconia. Understand we're talking about a state capital and a destination/biker/lake town, but it was pretty much all open businesses appearing to do well everywhere in between.

Drove through various Concord surrounding towns, such as Henniker, Bow, Hopkinton and towns on the other side too. Did not detect signs of delapidation that are common driving through VT. In fact it appeared to be a slow and steady state of improvement and slowly growing population.

NH may suffer from low population in a lot of areas, which is always a challenge. But I think the situation, on average, is noticeably different there from VT.

 

[Smellytele]

Not exactly true. Took a drive though Keene > Concord > Meredith/Laconia last weekend. I was actually surprised at how vital things appeared between Concord and Laconia. Understand we're talking about a state capital and a destination/biker/lake town, but it was pretty much all open businesses appearing to do well everywhere in between.

Drove through various Concord surrounding towns, such as Henniker, Bow, Hopkinton and towns on the other side too. Did not detect signs of delapidation that are common driving through VT.

NH may suffer from low population in a lot of areas, which is always a challenge. But I think the situation, on average, is noticeably different there from VT.

All the towns you mention are still mostly in the 93 corridor. NH seems to hide its poverty better as well, off of main roads. Vt seems to have it on the main roads as well.

 

[bdfreetuna]

All the towns you mention are still mostly in the 93 corridor. NH seems to hide its poverty better as well, off of main roads. Vt seems to have it on the main roads as well.

Well I agree, and thus edited out my "Not exactly true" opening sentence.

However, plainly stated, how people are doing in bumblefuck VT or bumblefuck NH doesn't make a lot of difference to me when considering a place to relocate family + business. The fact that NH actually has thriving regions and corridors is a stark contrast from Vermont, where really the only place I've seen that appears to be doing well is maybe Burlington and a couple small town centers in ski country.

 

[deadheadskier]

Yeah, I wouldn't call Laconia a town that's doing well economically. Far from it

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[thetrailboss]

Vermont is pretty anti-business in policy, but man, if it sure isn't gorgeous pretty much everywhere. Despite being pretty nanny state, the Vermont initiatives to keep it bucolic really pay dividends. You can't go anywhere in NH mountains without seeing 30 year old billboards for StoryLand every couple hundred yards. I'm willing to pay to live in basically an Ansel Adams photo or Normal Rockwell painting at all times.

Yes.

 

[ShadyGrove]

I'm expecting half of those tar paper shacks to be covered in gold leaf paper once marijuana legalization takes full effect up there.

I wouldn't hold your breath on full legalization in the way that CO/WA/etc. have done it. Come July VT is essentially decriminalizing possession of limited amounts and allowing some cultivation for personal use. No dispensaries, no legal sales, no taxation, etc.

 

[thetrailboss]

5% Normal Rockwell and 95% an extension of Upstate NY devastated economy. Could easily be the other way around.

Vermont is very, very lucky to be a prime skiing location. Still, the majority of their population suffers.

You can always open a liquor store or "dispensary"!

Very true. A lot of people only drive the direct routes to and from the ski area or resort town. Take a drive off the beaten path. Go to Eden. Go to Wheelock or Sheffield. Go to Newport. Hell, go to St. Jay or Rutland. What do you see? Appalachia. A lot of poverty. A lot of people down on their luck. There is a lot of talk about the middle class disappearing and the rust belt. A lot of people in Burlington conveniently forget about the rest of the state and the real picture. It is bleak.

The loss of manufacturing hurt Vermont a lot. Before I came of age, a lot of folks in these areas graduated from high school and went to work for a local manufacturer. Made decent money. Bought a decent house. Lived a middle-class life. They went from farming to manufacturing. They volunteered in their communities. There are a lot of manufacturers that served up this decent life for many that are gone: Marden Industries; Vermont Tap & Die (very sad); Fairbanks Scale (shadow of its former self); lots of Springfield, Vermont companies, etc. Those folks all left (or have retired or died).

This promotion is laughable. We will pay you $10,000 over two years to BRING your job with you so that Vermont can reap the tax benefits and you can enjoy a higher cost of living with lower income potential.

You also get to listen to protesters who are either trustafarians or don't care about money yell at you about how privileged you are and how you should pay more in taxes to help the poor, but don't want to see any new businesses come to Vermont.

 

[bdfreetuna]

Yeah, I wouldn't call Laconia a town that's doing well economically. Far from it

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Compared to what though? Also kind of a hard town to evaluate, like Daytona Florida or other towns that blow up for Bike Week and then return to normal.

US-3, US-132 and US-106 up there (at least the parts I drove) seemed pretty darn prosperous considering their relatively remote locations. I mean, businesses all along the sides of the road and seemingly doing well.

Maybe I'm just used to Vermont and thus low expectations. Seems pretty clear to me that rural NH does better on average than VT, NY or Maine. Rural Massachusetts does alright for the most part and northwest MA is IMO one of the better places you can choose to live.

 

[thetrailboss]

NH may suffer from low population in a lot of areas, which is always a challenge. But I think the situation, on average, is noticeably different there from VT.

While Vermont lost a lot of its middle class employment in the form of manufacturing jobs, NH has maintained or grown its position as the leader in retail in New England due to taxation. So a lot of folks are eeking out a very modest lifestyle by living in rural areas and working in retail stores. Vermont managed to hurt its retail and see its manufacturing disappear. Now it is only tourism really.

 

[thetrailboss]

Compared to what though? Also kind of a hard town to evaluate, like Daytona Florida or other towns that blow up for Bike Week and then return to normal.

US-3, US-132 and US-106 up there (at least the parts I drove) seemed pretty darn prosperous considering their relatively remote locations. I mean, businesses all along the sides of the road and seemingly doing well.

Maybe I'm just used to Vermont and thus low expectations. Seems pretty clear to me that rural NH does better on average than VT, NY or Maine. Rural Massachusetts does alright for the most part.

Read my comment about retail. The last time I was in Tilton/Laconia, it was a booming retail center.

 

[Smellytele]

Yeah, I wouldn't call Laconia a town that's doing well economically. Far from it

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If you count the Heroin trade it is.

 

[cdskier]

This promotion is laughable. We will pay you $10,000 over two years to BRING your job with you so that Vermont can reap the tax benefits and you can enjoy a higher cost of living

This is kind of my take on it. Is $5K for 2 years enough to offset the higher cost of living for those 2 years alone, never mind for the years beyond that? I'm quite sure my job wouldn't let me be full-time remote anyway, so this is a moot point for me.

 

[deadheadskier]

Well, a good measure of a regions economic health is how well is the hospital doing financially. LRGH is struggling. Just closed their birthing unit. Very high percentage of the population in that area is on Medicaid due to poverty or Medicare as the average age is rising faster than other areas of the state.

Downtown Barre VT seems to be doing well by just driving through too. Not the case

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[bdfreetuna]

I've spent a fair amount of time chatting with Barre locals at various bars especially the old Fire Station that I usually gravitate towards when up there (whatever it's called now). Seems to be "OK" by Vermont standards, which isn't that good really. I mean I can get a decent room there for $70/night. It has a few bars, a few restaurants, a few motels. Gas stations.

By VT standards it's one of the more thriving towns but by any other standards, not very impressive.

What TrailBoss is saying Re: retail is my observation as well.

Also, heroin trade is sadly kind of a baseline equalizer for every region being discussed here. You just notice it more in places where there's less going on otherwise. Or downtown Brattleboro.

 

[SkiRay]

Funny, as everyone I know has been sending CNN article to us! We had been considering Maine... Very coastal people - though I can see a life in VT very easily. They need more airports! Or make it so Rutland Airport has more flights to it. Burlington - well - we love that place..

 

[bigbog]

$10,000 over two years.......WOW!:lol:

 

[bigbog]

Funny, as everyone I know has been sending CNN article to us! We had been considering Maine... Very coastal people - though I can see a life in VT very easily. They need more airports! Or make it so Rutland Airport has more flights to it. Burlington - well - we love that place..

A lot of beautiful areas, below and above Portland....along the coast...but requires some deep pockets. Great for the young crowd...who has had good parents with careers to help them get a start. There's a LOT more nice territory to the state that's near the mountains than the coastal zone..but Maine isn't cheap, tax-wise.

 

[thetrailboss]

Funny, as everyone I know has been sending CNN article to us! We had been considering Maine... Very coastal people - though I can see a life in VT very easily. They need more airports! Or make it so Rutland Airport has more flights to it. Burlington - well - we love that place..

Considering that folks are fighting the F35, and flights into and out of BTV are still much more expensive than MHT, I would not bet that there will be any increased air traffic anytime soon. Southwest has been courted by BTV before, but the market isn't big enough for them...and everyone from Montpelier east drives to MHT as it is.

 

[djd66]

This incentive is a complete joke and i have no idea what the point is. The have ear marked $125K/year - so that means 25 people can move there under this program. WTF?? And that will do what? I love to ski Vermont, but I cant stand the politics and taxes. Income tax at 8.5% - yeah, sign me up. In addition - under the new tax plan - high state income taxes are not deductible on your federal taxes.

If they want to encourage people to move there - they need to make it easier to run a business that employs people. If there were well paying jobs and low taxes, people would flock there.

 

[thetrailboss]

This incentive is a complete joke and i have no idea what the point is. The have ear marked $125K/year - so that means 25 people can move there under this program. WTF?? And that will do what? I love to ski Vermont, but I cant stand the politics and taxes. Income tax at 8.5% - yeah, sign me up. In addition - under the new tax plan - high state income taxes are not deductible on your federal taxes.

If they want to encourage people to move there - they need to make it easier to run a business that employs people. If there were well paying jobs and low taxes, people would flock there.

Exactly. But it is easier for Montpelier to throw some money at another program rather than make hard reforms.