Anyone want to move to VT?

[BenedictGomez]

I would be the other way. I wouldn't want to be in Burlington but would love to live in the middle of no where.

There's no way I'd move back to Vermont, as it's arguably even worse than New Jersey at this point, but I agree with the above. I'd much rather live in a rural part of the state than moving back to Burlington, which IMO defeats the entire "purpose" of living in Vermont. Many people waxing poetic about Burlington have only seen it through the eyes of a tourist, and believe me, it's not all fall days drinking an IPA on Church Street when you reside there.

 

[BenedictGomez]

What do you think that says about the Vermont economy?

It's almost as if treating businesses like the enemy, punishing them at every turn, and calling them "evil", has a negative effect on income, jobs, and GDP.

A lot of people in Burlington conveniently forget about the rest of the state and the real picture. It is bleak.

Yup.

And it's far worse than that even, because, "a lot of people in Burlington", simultaneously act as if they're the self-righteous defenders of the impoverished, when in reality they're fully exacerbating the poverty while reveling in their MUCH higher standard of living & quality of life.

 

[benski]

It's almost as if treating businesses like the enemy, punishing them at every turn, and calling them "evil", has a negative effect on income, jobs, and GDP.

Most rural areas are struggling. VT is not that unusual. You should see rural New York.

 

[benski]

And it's far worse than that even, because, "a lot of people in Burlington", simultaneously act as if they're the self-righteous defenders of the impoverished, when in reality they're fully exacerbating the poverty while reveling in their MUCH higher standard of living & quality of life.[/QUOTE]

We have been going down your road since Regan, and its quite clear that simultaneously the rich keep getting richer and the poor get none of it.

 

[Glenn]

Interesting proposal by the sate.

VT has an issue with younger people leaving the state. Even the smaller towns are seeing this as a concern going forward.

It's somewhat of a dead horse in this thread, but the state has to adopt a more business friendly attitude if it wants to move things forward. We get the local paper from Bratt on the weekends and the opinion section is a real trip to read. I'll spare you the political details.

VT is an interesting state. There are some aspects that lean one way, and others that lean another. My wife and I aren't close to retirement age at the moment. But if we were at this point, we'd most likely put our roots down east of the Connecticut River. VT's current climate and policies a pretty similar to what's going on in the flatlands.

Here's the driving force behind the new regulation:

[FONT=&quot]"We have about 16,000 fewer workers than we did in 2009. That's why expanding our workforce is one of the top priorities of my administration," [/FONT][FONT=&quot]"

[/FONT]https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/31/vermont-will-pay-you-10000-to-move-there-and-work-from-home.html

 

[gregnye]

Interesting proposal by the sate.

VT has an issue with younger people leaving the state. Even the smaller towns are seeing this as a concern going forward.

I feel like most states have this issue though. Contrary to what most old people think in this country, the young people don't just hang out in rural areas with no job waiting for handouts from the government. Most are forced to the cities for jobs, and share small apartments.

City life really has everything young people want. It has jobs, places to shop, people to hangout with and date. The dating in particular is a huge issue. No longer do people fall in love with their highschool crush and share a house in the suburbs for eternity. Now, it's acceptable to casually hookup, and thats easier in the cities.


For these reasons, most younger people (like myself) are only considering cities close to nature. Denver Colorado, for instance is both a vibrant city that also has outdoorsy stuff not very far away. When you consider how long the drive is from Boston to Vermont, and the fact that you have to drive past most of NH to get there, its no wonder no one is living there anymore.

 

[bdfreetuna]

I'd much rather live in a rural part of the state than moving back to Burlington, which IMO defeats the entire "purpose" of living in Vermont. Many people waxing poetic about Burlington have only seen it through the eyes of a tourist, and believe me, it's not all fall days drinking an IPA on Church Street when you reside there.

I assume it's similar to my life in Northampton MA for the last decade + . Plusses and minuses, easy to get caught up in a depressing kind of scene, but also possible to make the most of the conveniences and find a nice spot on the edge of town.

 

[abc]

and the fact that you have to drive past most of NH to get there, its no wonder no one is living there anymore.

Not if you're coming from New York!

And what's the population of the New York tri-state area compare to the population of greater Boston?

 

[drjeff]

The VT GDP is roughly 30 Billion a year. The state has significant annual budgetary issues. The state is looking at the federal government wanting to bring their F-35 jet base to Burlington with an estimated 3 Billion added to the VT economy from both direct and indirect jobs and investment. The Burlington residents are balking, even though there's already a fighter jet wing based in Burlington as well as regular commercial jet traffic and noise at the airport. Most states these days would jump at the chance to see a quick increase in their GDP of almost 7%... Not VT.

VT isn't a tax or business friendly state in it's current operations. This 10k teaser, is just that, a teaser. Until VT rethinks it's business climate, it will continue to be a state where a large amount of wealth is concentrated in small geographic regions with significant populations of wealthy second home owners, and the vast majority of the state in poor economic status with mainly seasonal and not much above minimum wage service industry jobs

Sent from my XT1254 using AlpineZone mobile app

 

[deadheadskier]

There's no way I'd move back to Vermont, as it's arguably even worse than New Jersey at this point, but I agree with the above. I'd much rather live in a rural part of the state than moving back to Burlington, which IMO defeats the entire "purpose" of living in Vermont. Many people waxing poetic about Burlington have only seen it through the eyes of a tourist, and believe me, it's not all fall days drinking an IPA on Church Street when you reside there.

To each their own, but I spent about 4 years in Burlington. 2 of my 4 years while at UVM (other 2 living in Stowe while in school) and 2 years moving back there in my late 20s. I personally loved it. Great restaurants and music scene, packed event schedule, the lake and the access to the mountains. Loved being right downtown and walking to every place I needed to go.


But, I was working middle management in the hotel industry at the time and my salary didn't go far enough to buy a home and most of the rentals in town were garbage. Moved to Portland, ME from there which had better pay and better housing for less money.

I'm part of the statistic of young people (well formerly young) who left VT for gr$$ner pastures.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app

 

[mister moose]

And it's far worse than that even, because, "a lot of people in Burlington", simultaneously act as if they're the self-righteous defenders of the impoverished, when in reality they're fully exacerbating the poverty while reveling in their MUCH higher standard of living & quality of life.

We have been going down your road since Regan, and its quite clear that simultaneously the rich keep getting richer and the poor get none of it.

So high taxes causing flight of capital, jobs and industry is better? Companies bring jobs at market wages. There is no added feel good hand-out. Companies leave when you levy the feel good hand-out tax. Then it is worse for the jobless.

Vermont needs to incentivize companies to come to their state. Show them how they will make money in VT. Create the [profitable] climate. Which is pretty tough if you hate big bad business, but this is the kind of climate change Vermont really needs.

 

[56fish]

Relocated two small seasonal businesses here from Pa couple years ago .... desire to be here only incentive I needed

Beauty serenity, wealth are in the eye of the beholder ..... I’ll take the Kingdom.

How many Vt plates do you see in Ma or Nh, maybe to spend a couple bucks and, get the heck back

:beer:

 

[abc]

How many Vt plates do you see in Ma or Nh

How many Vt plates do you see ANYWHERE???

Either VT is heaven on eart and residents move in and never leave. Or its residents are too poor to go anywhere?

 

[mbedle]

Just out of stupidity, why is the overall consensus that Vermont is one of the worst states to live or work in? Based on what I've read, the overall tax burden (gas, sales, income, property, etc.) appear to be high, but not to far outside the range we see in New England. Take it with a grain of salt, but it looks like Maine and New York have a higher burden of overall taxes on its residence. As far as state financials, they are rank pretty low, but Massachusetts and New Jersey look to be even worst. Just wonder, since I am looking to move there for retirement.

 

[abc]

Good question.

And is tax the only thing? I thought it makes more sense to look at cost of living. What about property price vs properly tax? Which has a bigger impact on overall cosy of living?

 

[Glenn]

Re: VT Plates

Take a look at the Hinsdale, NH Super Walmart on a weekend. There are a lot of green plates in that lot! Is subtle irony because VT towns often fight tooth and nail to keep big box stores out. Heck, people practically did cartwheels in the street when Home Depot left Bratt. I never understood cheer leading job loss.

Is VT the worse place to live or retire?

I suppose that depends. It's often easy to look at these situations from a purely financial point of view. But certainly, that's not 100% of the story. We spend a lot of weekends there and enjoy it quite a bit. We are physically close to NH, so when the time comes, retiring there would be plausible without much disruption to our routine.

I will say, the "close proximity to Boston and NY" is a bit of a stretch. It's quite a haul no matter how you slice it. Doable for a meeting here or there, but certainly not if you have to be in either city somewhat frequently.

 

[ss20]

Take a look at the Hinsdale, NH Super Walmart on a weekend. There are a lot of green plates in that lot! Is subtle irony because VT towns often fight tooth and nail to keep big box stores out. Heck, people practically did cartwheels in the street when Home Depot left Bratt. I never understood cheer leading job loss.

I never understood why VT'ers try to keep chains out of the state. Sure local shops are great...but you pay for it with generally higher prices and less selection. On my trip to Mad River/Sugarbush this year I had a really hard time finding low-cost food. I think I got dirt cheap chinese food twice and some mexican place that was reasonable. But other than that everything I looked at seemed to be geared towards tourists looking to burn $$$.

That's why I like Ludlow. Quaint enough to "look" like you're in Vermont, but built enough you have some reasonable options for necessities like the Shaw's, a couple gas stations, and a Dunkin Donuts when you need a coffee fix but aren't looking to spend $$$.

 

[cdskier]

I never understood why VT'ers try to keep chains out of the state. Sure local shops are great...but you pay for it with generally higher prices and less selection. On my trip to Mad River/Sugarbush this year I had a really hard time finding low-cost food. I think I got dirt cheap chinese food twice and some mexican place that was reasonable. But other than that everything I looked at seemed to be geared towards tourists looking to burn $$$.

That's why I like Ludlow. Quaint enough to "look" like you're in Vermont, but built enough you have some reasonable options for necessities like the Shaw's, a couple gas stations, and a Dunkin Donuts when you need a coffee fix but aren't looking to spend $$$.

How do you define "low-cost food"? The Thai food place by Sugarbush is an incredible steal for cheap (and delicious) food.

There's also several gas stations in the MRV with cheap coffee. There's also a Shaw's. So the only thing Ludlow has from your list that the MRV doesn't is a Dunkin Donuts (which I'm content to not have).

 

[deadheadskier]

Personal choice to support small independent businesses. I personally love the fact that much of VT hasn't been homogenized like most every where else in America. It's one of the things that I love about my town in NH. Outside of an Irving Station, Rite Aid, Abuchon and an Aroma Joe's we have zero chains here. Used to have a McDonald's and a Subway, but both closed due to lack of business. But all the locally owned and operated restaurants are thriving.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using AlpineZone mobile app

 

[BenedictGomez]

How many Vt plates do you see ANYWHERE???

Either VT is heaven on eart and residents move in and never leave. Or its residents are too poor to go anywhere?

I say this all the time. Vermonters dont go anywhere. I dont necessarily know if it's a money thing, but that certainly could contribute to it. I joke with my fiance's family that Vermonters are not permitted to leave the state. What's really shocking to me is how northern Vermoners never go to Montreal. It's not uncommon to meet people 50 years old who've never been to Montreal, while growing up & living 1 hour from Montreal. That always completely blew my mind.

As far as state financials, they are rank pretty low, but Massachusetts and New Jersey look to be even worst. Just wonder, since I am looking to move there for retirement.

Well, nobody is knocking down the door to retire to Massachusetts or New Jersey either, so that should tell you something.

But financially speaking, Vermont has to be one of the worst states to choose for retirement, unless you're rich and thus money doesnt matter. Essentially everything is taxed highly there, there's a state income tax, and Vermont even taxes Social Security benefits (making them 1 of only about 10 states that do so). The net effect is that the cost-of-living has skyrocketed in Vermont over the last 20 years. The C.O.L. in Vermont is approximately the same as the C.O.L. in New Jersey, a fact few people know, and that I believe would shock the hell out of them if they did. My perception is that many Vermonters are blissfully unaware of how expensive their state has become.

https://www.uslearning.net/cost-of-living-by-state.html