Anyone want to move to VT?

[CoolMike]

How do you define "low-cost food"? The Thai food place by Sugarbush is an incredible steal for cheap (and delicious) food.

There's also several gas stations in the MRV with cheap coffee. There's also a Shaw's. So the only thing Ludlow has from your list that the MRV doesn't is a Dunkin Donuts (which I'm content to not have).

Not to pick on you but I thought it was funny that you listed Shaw's in a remark about low-cost food!

I saved 80$ a week switching from Shaw's to Whole Foods! Recently I've switched again from there to one of the nicer local Market Baskets for another 40-50$ per week savings. This with a family of 4. I was stunned how expensive Shaw's was - much more than even Whole Foods, let alone the other major and minor competitors. PS - Whole Foods stinks too - why can't I buy some damn scotchbrite sponges and non-hippy flavored dish soap!?

 

[thetrailboss]

Not to pick on you but I thought it was funny that you listed Shaw's in a remark about low-cost food!

I saved 80$ a week switching from Shaw's to Whole Foods! Recently I've switched again from there to one of the nicer local Market Baskets for another 40-50$ per week savings. This with a family of 4. I was stunned how expensive Shaw's was - much more than even Whole Foods, let alone the other major and minor competitors. PS - Whole Foods stinks too - why can't I buy some damn scotchbrite sponges and non-hippy flavored dish soap!?

I always thought that Shaw's was expensive myself.

 

[cdskier]

Not to pick on you but I thought it was funny that you listed Shaw's in a remark about low-cost food!

I used Shaw's because I was responding to ss20's post where he specifically mentioned Ludlow as having a Shaw's when he was citing that town as an example of having more "reasonable" options than the MRV. So I was merely pointing out that the MRV has the same thing. Personally I rarely shop there.

 

[x10003q]

Retired folks is not what Vermont needs. And it is not at all what the program is for.

Actually, retired folks with disposable income are exactly what Vermont needs. They add no kids to the schools, pay property taxes and increase the need for service jobs. If these retirees come from the Wash-Boston area, it is likely they have children/family that would be in driving distance. This would mean more money being spent in Vermont.

 

[thetrailboss]

Actually, retired folks with disposable income are exactly what Vermont needs. They add no kids to the schools, pay property taxes and increase the need for service jobs. If these retirees come from the Wash-Boston area, it is likely they have children/family that would be in driving distance. This would mean more money being spent in Vermont.

Actually, no. Retired folks have no income. Thus, no income tax revenue. And they do need services--lots of public services that cost taxpayer $$$. It is a net loss. And again this program is not to get retirees to come to Vermont because Vermont is already one of the states with the oldest demographic.

 

[Domeskier]

Food is surprisingly inexpensive in NYC.

I can save about 30% on groceries by shopping in Jersey. Where are you eating?

 

[Domeskier]

Actually, no. Retired folks have no income.

While I agree that this program is not targeted at retirees, there are more forms of taxable income than remuneration for personal services.

 

[sull1102]

Actually, retired folks with disposable income are exactly what Vermont needs. They add no kids to the schools, pay property taxes and increase the need for service jobs. If these retirees come from the Wash-Boston area, it is likely they have children/family that would be in driving distance. This would mean more money being spent in Vermont.

You are 120% DEAD WRONG. In fact what you just said is the exact problem this state has. Retirees contribute, yes, but not nearly on the level as young couples and families bringing jobs and their incomes/education. This state has a major education problem with folks who went through the public school systems, things need to change badly. You need better schools to educate these kids to be more than their struggling parents and go do something with their lives and add to that state instead of have a kid at 16-18 to jump on welfare early and live off the system.

 

[deadheadskier]

You are 120% DEAD WRONG. In fact what you just said is the exact problem this state has. Retirees contribute, yes, but not nearly on the level as young couples and families bringing jobs and their incomes/education. This state has a major education problem with folks who went through the public school systems, things need to change badly. You need better schools to educate these kids to be more than their struggling parents and go do something with their lives and add to that state instead of have a kid at 16-18 to jump on welfare early and live off the system.

VT is always top ten in the nation for primary and secondary education. Usually top 5. Schools aren't the problem. Many of VT kids leave after school in search of better opportunity.


https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/education

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[cdskier]

VT is always top ten in the nation for primary and secondary education. Usually top 5. Schools aren't the problem. Many of VT kids leave after school in search of better opportunity.


https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/education

That makes sense and supports the argument that they have a lack of younger people in VT that would be paying income taxes.

Interesting that the top 6 states for K-12 education are all in the northeast.

 

[sull1102]

VT is always top ten in the nation for primary and secondary education. Usually top 5. Schools aren't the problem. Many of VT kids leave after school in search of better opportunity.


https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/education

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The second half of that is the problem, the well educated leave. Also the high end can drag those scores up, come check out some of these schools down here in Southern Vermont and talk to the kids, hear what the teacher are and are not teaching them, what their parents teach them, and I think you'll see how far behind they are compared to kids of the same age not just in America but more importantly worldwide. There are wide gaps, look at a Manchester with Burr and Burton which is a truly a wonderful school, then look at say Mount Anthony half an hour down the road, tis scary how big the divide is.

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[abc]

I can save about 30% on groceries by shopping in Jersey. Where are you eating?

Street carts, Chinatown, Washington Height... depends on where my office is and where my commute takes me.

Of course I don't shop in the overpriced "supermarket"! The only thing "super" about them are their prices! (although WholeFood's sale items are surprisingly competitive in price, and similarly at Trader Joe's and Fairway for some specialty item not found on other places)

Shop in ethnic or minority run shops or better yet, street carts man by Egyptians or Haitians. Food and grocery are often fresher and reasonably priced.

 

[BenedictGomez]

I can save about 30% on groceries by shopping in Jersey. Where are you eating?

Agreed; when I lived in the city I'd bring as much as my groceries in from Jersey as possible.

When Fresh Direct started, I found that cheaper than shopping in the stores in Manhattan as well. I imagine it would be the same now with Jet.com.

 

[deadheadskier]

The second half of that is the problem, the well educated leave. Also the high end can drag those scores up, come check out some of these schools down here in Southern Vermont and talk to the kids, hear what the teacher are and are not teaching them, what their parents teach them, and I think you'll see how far behind they are compared to kids of the same age not just in America but more importantly worldwide. There are wide gaps, look at a Manchester with Burr and Burton which is a truly a wonderful school, then look at say Mount Anthony half an hour down the road, tis scary how big the divide is.

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This is reality in every state in the country. All states have good districts and bad districts, but the point is overall VT is doing well. VT at least is trying to address some of the inequality in primary and secondary school education with Act 60.

It's the lack of jobs driving young people to leave that is the problem. You can throw all the money you want at public education, but that will do little to change things. I had many friends while at UVM who were from the Brattleboro and Bellows Falls areas. BF high school isn't a great school. These kids managed well enough, got a college degree and left the state for greener pastures. All doing well in professional careers that simply do not exist in VT in any great numbers or compensation. Hell, that's why I personally left.

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[x10003q]

Actually, no. Retired folks have no income. Thus, no income tax revenue.

Nope.
"Vermont taxes all forms of retirement income at rates ranging from 3.55% to 8.95%. This includes Social Security retirement benefits and income from retirement accounts."

https://smartasset.com/retirement/vermont-retirement-taxes

They would also pay property taxes.

And they do need services--lots of public services that cost taxpayer $$$. It is a net loss. And again this program is not to get retirees to come to Vermont because Vermont is already one of the states with the oldest demographic.

In NJ, every town is trying to add senior housing - they pay the same property taxes without adding any kids to the school system. The biggest part of every NJ property tax bill (up to 65%) is the school system. Kids in NJ can cost as much as $35k per year for K-12 (NJ avg about $21K). There are no seniors costing a town $21k/year. I doubt there are any seniors that cost the town what they pay in property taxes.

It might be smart for Vermont to figure out how to entice some of the people who live in the metro areas and love coming to Vermont on weekends and on vacations to retire in Vermont with their metro area retirement savings.

 

[sull1102]

This is reality in every state in the country. All states have good districts and bad districts, but the point is overall VT is doing well. VT at least is trying to address some of the inequality in primary and secondary school education with Act 60.

It's the lack of jobs driving young people to leave that is the problem. You can throw all the money you want at public education, but that will do little to change things. I had many friends while at UVM who were from the Brattleboro and Bellows Falls areas. BF high school isn't a great school. These kids managed well enough, got a college degree and left the state for greener pastures. All doing well in professional careers that simply do not exist in VT in any great numbers or compensation. Hell, that's why I personally left.

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Vermont is overall not doing well, I live here now and I see it first hand every single day. The bottom half here is on par if not worse than what you see in places like Arkansas, I know, I've also seen that first hand. It is silly to even have this argument when it is so obvious how serious the problems are here and a major part of that is people who don't live here and used to or have a vacation home here that say oh Vermont is so great, yeah Burlington and Chittenden County are doing well, that's great for them, but the bottom of the State has been deemed an economic disaster area by the Fed, jobs are scarce, folks with a good education are leaving in droves and many many people are leaving to get an education elsewhere. Come on up and put your kid in the public schools of some of these lower end towns like a Brattleboro, Bennington, Rutland.

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[deadheadskier]

The argument that you made was that education is a big problem in need of investment.

I don't make up the numbers and rankings. Those all point to VT doing a great job comparatively to most of the rest of the country. Even the "bad" school districts like Mt Anthony do pretty good compared to the National average on measures like Reading and Math proficiency, SAT scores etc. As mentioned those communities receive extra state funding through Act 60 to help level the playing field. So, it's not entirely true that the state performance on education is being heavily skewed by top performing districts.



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[VTKilarney]

Keep in mind that little, poor Vermont has the 5th highest per pupil spending rate in the country. Our education taxes are in the stratosphere. And yet I pay private school tuition on top of those taxes, as anyone in my town who can afford to does.

http://www.governing.com/gov-data/education-data/state-education-spending-per-pupil-data.html

 

[Hawk]

Hey I don't have kids, don't live in the state full time and pay those same taxes. I pay almost as much tax in VT with a second home as do at my primary home. It is what it is and I love being in VT. I look at the schools around the MRV and north of us and I here nothing but praise for the schools and teachers so it appears to me that they are doing a good job. I do not see what happens south of mid state so I can not comment on it.

What is totally mind blowing to me is that the state did not go the route of dispensaries and used that tax to help the issues they are faced with. There are so many that grow in VT that are under the radar. If they just regulated it it would be a huge win fall.

 

[ShadyGrove]

I don't understand what you guys are talking about when you say there is a lack of work in Vermont. Everyone I know has 2 or even three jobs! ;-)