Anyone want to move to VT?

[VTKilarney]

Reading this thread makes Vermont sound like the most expensive place to live, but I think it still must cost less than metro Boston. House prices here are sky high, so even if the property tax rate is less in MA, you still end up paying more money. And that's probably on a house that's smaller, older, and has less land than what you could get up in VT. I can see why people would consider retiring up there.

I agree that VT is not highly ranked for colleges, especially for engineering majors. When my kids were looking at colleges, nothing in VT was on the radar.

When I say "expensive to live," I count the fact that salaries are lower in Vermont than they are in Boston or New York. You have to factor that into the equation.

 

[abc]

When I say "expensive to live," I count the fact that salaries are lower in Vermont than they are in Boston or New York. You have to factor that into the equation.

It's "expensive" for the income level.

Put another way, pay is low with regard to cost of living.

 

[shwilly]

When I say "expensive to live," I count the fact that salaries are lower in Vermont than they are in Boston or New York. You have to factor that into the equation.

Right, that's very relevant. The VT job market is what it is, but VT home prices are pushed up because seemingly half the people in those big metro areas want second homes or to move to VT to "get out of the rat race." It's a strange downside to being seen as a pastoral paradise. I don't know the answer.

 

[thetrailboss]

Reading this thread makes Vermont sound like the most expensive place to live, but I think it still must cost less than metro Boston. House prices here are sky high, so even if the property tax rate is less in MA, you still end up paying more money. And that's probably on a house that's smaller, older, and has less land than what you could get up in VT. I can see why people would consider retiring up there.

I agree that VT is not highly ranked for colleges, especially for engineering majors. When my kids were looking at colleges, nothing in VT was on the radar.

It is more expensive in Vermont when you take into account the cut in income potential. It is huge.

 

[VTKilarney]

It is more expensive in Vermont when you take into account the cut in income potential. It is huge.

To be fair, it is a trade that I voluntarily made. But that trade has to be made if you want to live in Vermont.

 

[sull1102]

Reading this thread makes Vermont sound like the most expensive place to live, but I think it still must cost less than metro Boston. House prices here are sky high, so even if the property tax rate is less in MA, you still end up paying more money. And that's probably on a house that's smaller, older, and has less land than what you could get up in VT. I can see why people would consider retiring up there.

I agree that VT is not highly ranked for colleges, especially for engineering majors. When my kids were looking at colleges, nothing in VT was on the radar.

It is more expensive to live back home in Boston by a big margin, but the quality of life can vary. The bottom of the barrel here in SoVT is usually worse off than those in the projects in Southie. However, there are wayyyyyyy more opportunities to improve yourself and change your life for the better in Boston than there are here. If you are moving to Vermont you better be moving with or already have a solid career job.

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[sull1102]

Shoot me a private message if you are interested. I pay tuition at two different private schools.

Point proven once again, Vermont schools are so good, 5th in the nation, but not good enough for your kids no you chose to go the private option so come on man what is?

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[sull1102]

One problem with Vermont is that we spend TONS of money on K-12 education, but we spend NOTHING on higher education. This encourages native Vermonters to go to school out of state - most of whom will never return.

There's lots of discussion about how business-unfriendly Vermont is. But let's be honest. There are lots of states in the northeast that are business-unfriendly. (ME, NY, MA, NJ, CT, etc.) And yet New York and Boston are booming. Why? Because businesses are willing to suffer some pains in order to be located where the talent and opportunities are. And therein lies the problem for Vermont. Talent and opportunities are in much shorter supply here. .

Alright well here you don't know what you are talking about. New Jersey is home to countless MAJOR corporate headquarters from all industries. Amazon is looking at moving a ton of staff to Boston, GE just moved their HQ to Boston, Fidelity is here, Putnam too. The population is growing as much as the housing will allow and there's a full on housing crisis going on now. New York is NYC come on.

Only Connecticut and Maine are seeing companies and people and their tax base leaving in droves.

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[VTKilarney]

Point proven once again, Vermont schools are so good, 5th in the nation, but not good enough for your kids no you chose to go the private option so come on man what is?

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I'm not sure what your question is - nor I am sure what "point" has been proven. Are you angered that I have the means to provide the best possible education for my children?

In your rush to judge, what you failed to consider is that my local public school is ranked 155th out of 171 in the state.

But why let facts affect a good tirade?

 

[cdskier]

Alright well here you don't know what you are talking about. New Jersey is home to countless MAJOR corporate headquarters from all industries. Amazon is looking at moving a ton of staff to Boston, GE just moved their HQ to Boston, Fidelity is here, Putnam too. The population is growing as much as the housing will allow and there's a full on housing crisis going on now. New York is NYC come on.

Only Connecticut and Maine are seeing companies and people and their tax base leaving in droves.

Huh? You're just giving examples that prove VTK's point so not sure how you're also saying he doesn't know what he is talking about. His point was that places like NJ and MA have many successful businesses that are booming DESPITE those states also being relatively unfriendly towards businesses (which I would agree with for NJ). Going back several years my company shifted much of our R&D work up to the Cambridge area. Why? It wasn't to save money and had little to do with the business friendliness of either state...but it was for access to the scientific talent in that area (exactly VTK's point that companies are willing to deal with the pain of doing business in a particular state if they think it is worth it for things like access to talent).

At least for NJ, there are also many companies that HAVE left for more business friendly states though. I live here. I've seen them leave with my own eyes. We may be home to countless major corporations, but there are also many more that left.

 

[sull1102]

Well Jersey just gave my company a massive borderline insane tax cut to keep HQ in Jersey so perhaps there I was slightly biased, however Massachusetts is not the same situation. You think MA is unfriendly to business? Have you seen the tax cuts they gave GE, Fidelity, are willing to give Amazon, etc, etc?

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[sull1102]

I'm not sure what your question is - nor I am sure what "point" has been proven. Are you angered that I have the means to provide the best possible education for my children?

In your rush to judge, what you failed to consider is that my local public school is ranked 155th out of 171 in the state.

But why let facts affect a good tirade?

Ughhh, what a d-baggy comment. No I don't give two flying f's what education you give your kids, you should do what's best for them, that's not why I come on AZ lol. My point that you forgot was that Vermont schools are bad and you proved it by saying your kids go to private school, bit by the time you got there in your sentence you did remember what my point was. I've watched you do this on the Burke/Jay threads years ago so I know you aren't going to come off your right leaning side of the fence, which is fine.

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[VTKilarney]

Well Jersey just gave my company a massive borderline insane tax cut to keep HQ in Jersey so perhaps there I was slightly biased, however Massachusetts is not the same situation. You think MA is unfriendly to business? Have you seen the tax cuts they gave GE, Fidelity, are willing to give Amazon, etc, etc?

Those tax cuts are a race to the bottom. Numerous states offered them. Massachusetts didn't offer them because they wanted to. They offered them because they had to.

 

[VTKilarney]

My point that you forgot was that Vermont schools are bad and you proved it by saying your kids go to private school

I "proved" nothing of the sort. All I said was that the school in MY town is bad. I made no judgment regarding the quality of schools in the State of Vermont as a whole.

When and if I do that I will let you know.

 

[JimG.]

Those tax cuts are a race to the bottom. Numerous states offered them. Massachusetts didn't offer them because they wanted to. They offered them because they had to.

Ya!

NY offers insane tax discounts to businesses and the effect has been to hollow out the tax coffers wherever those businesses set up shop. Bad news for local property owners.

 

[mister moose]

So we're giving tax cuts for a select few and screwing the rest?

So Amazon can compete even better against mom and pop?
So my widgets are now uncompetitive because Acme Widgets just got a sweetheart deal for not moving and can sell them cheaper?

This bribery based selective tax policy is messed up.

 

[VTKilarney]

If you are interested in the tax incentive issue, here is something worth reading:
https://itep.org/tax-incentives-costly-for-states-drag-on-the-nation/

 

[cdskier]

I "proved" nothing of the sort. All I said was that the school in MY town is bad. I made no judgment regarding the quality of schools in the State of Vermont as a whole.

When and if I do that I will let you know.

I thought your comment was pretty clear and agree it proved absolutely nothing about VT as a whole. Not sure why someone else is having a difficult time understanding.

And honestly, even if you had a top ranked school in your town and sent your kids to a private school anyway, that still proves absolutely nothing. The town where I grew up in NJ was one of the top ranked school districts in the state, yet some people still chose to send their kids to private schools. That proves nothing.

 

[56fish]

:beer: peace

 

[BenedictGomez]

That is factually incorrect. At least for NY state which I just checked. Probably for Massachusetts and NJ as well.

What exactly are you looking at?

New York State is dead last in America in this category. Without looking, I know MA & NJ are bottom 5 as well.

I believe Texas is still #1 (too lazy to look right now), suburbs of places like Austin are booming.

When I say "expensive to live," I count the fact that salaries are lower in Vermont than they are in Boston or New York. You have to factor that into the equation.

Yup. Just a weeeee important detail to leave out. LOL

So we're giving tax cuts for a select few and screwing the rest?

So Amazon can compete even better against mom and pop?
So my widgets are now uncompetitive because Acme Widgets just got a sweetheart deal for not moving and can sell them cheaper?

This bribery based selective tax policy is messed up.

Agreed; and I find this recent tax policy capitulation by very left-leaning states (NY, NJ, CA, IL, MA) both amusing & bemusing.

For years they assured their membership that Republicans were wrong & that corporate tax incentives do absolutely nothing to create jobs or attract business. Yet quietly (very quietly), most of these liberal states have been doing just that over the last 5 years, but as you note, they're doing it wrong, by "picking the winners" & generally only offering these juicy tax incentives to the largest companies. A lowering of the corporate taxes holistically in concert with spending cuts (for balance) would be best economically, but unfortunately it's easier to get a cat to take a bath than get those states to decrease spending! In NJ, we're spending ourselves into oblivion.