AZ Challenge 2009: Chris Nyberg, Killington/Pico

[JerseyJoey]

Actually, I'd like Greg to include a question to Chris about why, having been here two years already, Chris and Killington's new ownership still engenders so much dislike and distrust among so many of its historic customer base. I'd like Greg to ask Chris, if they had it to do all over again, what would they have done differently? I'd also like to know why they're spending money on a marketing consultant in Utah (I believe) to help them develop a brand identity for Killington when, in fact, they've had a successful brand identity for 50 years and why they haven't done anything since they arrived here to support that brand and seemingly tried to tear down the remains of the Killington brand they purchased?

You want Chris to answer your questions or can I do it for him?

 

[icedtea]

Chris: Why do you think it is appropriate to respond to a customer complaint by emailing his employer?

j.k.... uke:uke:

 

[SkiBud]

Disconnect

Welcome to the board. And a disclaimer here, I've only been skiing at Killington for a few years.

Killington threads tend to get a lot of people really stirred up. Through the 90s, it was a force to be reckoned with. First to open and last to close into the East with seasons going well over 200 days, the best bump scene in the East, ect. As Geoff (who is much more of an expert than I am) puts it, Killington used to be all about superlatives, and at this point doesn't really have anything that you can point a finger at as being the best in the East.

Essentially, there are a lot of people that are very disgruntled with the direction Killington has taken over the last 5-10 years due to how good it used to be. The terrain and snowfall are still very good, but closing in 2008 with tons of snow coverage, stopping BYOB at the Bear Mountain mogul comp (therefore killing the biggest party in the east,) cutting staff to the point of it being noticable for those who've been longtime customers, etc. have caused quite a bit of resentment.

I think that most people are fairly happy with management at Sunday River where I ski. We've got a fair active dissuasion board to bring up issues. Management is very available and does lots of meet and greats. We don't always agree, but we feel heard.

After reading a lot of negative Killington posts, it begs the question "What are there goals" I am sure they have them, they clearly are different then the old management group.

So my question to Chris Nyberg is "What are your long range goals?", do you have a written Mission, Vision and Value statements you could share.

A thought to share all the negative posters, when you watch a TV commercial and don't get it, it wasn't targeted at you. So if you don't get Killington, perhaps you should consider another ski area you get. For those of you can reasonable drive to Sunday River, I highly recommend it.

 

[JerseyJoey]

A thought to share all the negative posters, when you watch a TV commercial and don't get it, it wasn't targeted at you. So if you don't get Killington, perhaps you should consider another ski area you get.

And therein lies the problem. WE DO GET KILLINGTON. It's Nyberg that doesn't get it.

 

[icedtea]

And therein lies the problem. WE DO GET KILLINGTON. It's Nyberg that doesn't get it.

+42

I can't see how any person with business savvy thinks it would be a positive to isolate and alienate their core, loyal customers.

JJ could you imagine doing this in your business, and then turning it around and blaming on the customer?

 

[tcharron]

And therein lies the problem. WE DO GET KILLINGTON. It's Nyberg that doesn't get it.

Then for christs sake stop giving them free press talking about how bad they're screwing it up. Just send your dollars someplace else.

People, you have to really get a grasp on this.

Killington will NEVER be the old Killington. You're comparing it to a legend in your own minds. It's dead, just let it go, and go someplace else, and drop it.

 

[icedtea]

Then for christs sake stop giving them free press talking about how bad they're screwing it up. Just send your dollars someplace else.

People, you have to really get a grasp on this.

Killington will NEVER be the old Killington. You're comparing it to a legend in your own minds. It's dead, just let it go, and go someplace else, and drop it.

People are invested in real estate. Plus the geography of Killington makes it very appealling. It is already a decent car ride, and I would not want to add another hour to get up to Sugarbush every weekend.

There is no mountain south of K that could keep me interested for a whole season.

 

[tcharron]

+42

I can't see how any person with business savvy thinks it would be a positive to isolate and alienate their core, loyal customers.

JJ could you imagine doing this in your business, and then turning it around and blaming on the customer?

And now we're HAND HOLDING while singing kumbaya, protesting the evil, vile supermarket ski area. Guys, it's become obviouse.

You're not their core anymore. And if you where smart, you wouldn't be their customers anymore.

Christ, you guys are like stalker ex-girlfriends who just don't get that it's over.

 

[deadheadskier]

Then for christs sake stop giving them free press talking about how bad they're screwing it up. Just send your dollars someplace else.

People, you have to really get a grasp on this.

Killington will NEVER be the old Killington. You're comparing it to a legend in your own minds. It's dead, just let it go, and go someplace else, and drop it.

part of me agrees with you


part of me also sees that Killington is starting to listen to their core some and realizing certain policies are affecting their bottom line. Specifically last season I see the longer year and running the Gondola everyday.

 

[tcharron]

People are invested in real estate. Plus the geography of Killington makes it very appealling. It is already a decent car ride, and I would not want to add another hour to get up to Sugarbush every weekend.

There is no mountain south of K that could keep me interested for a whole season.

Then either:

#1) Sue them. You'll lose, but have fun with that.
#2) Start your own ski area. Lot of work, but hey, solves the issue.
#3) Complain in message boards. Oh yea, this works great. Where, to the outside observer, you're ALL sounding like HighwayStar.
#4) Just plain take it. Pay them to ski there. It's their mountain. This is critical. *IT'S NOT YOURS*

 

[tcharron]

part of me agrees with you


part of me also sees that Killington is starting to listen to their core some and realizing certain policies are affecting their bottom line. Specifically last season I see the longer year and running the Gondola everyday.

Question. How much of that change is becouse people bitched for pages that they thought the management sux0rs, Those Id10t's! And how much of the change is because buisness is down? Vote with your wallets! Getting all sort of Highwaystar on a message boards doesn't help.

Most important, if I where them, it would make me.. This is important to..

*NOT WANT TO DEAL WITH ANSWERING ANY QUESTIONS ON AZ IN THE FUTURE*

 

[bobbutts]

Then for christs sake stop giving them free press talking about how bad they're screwing it up. Just send your dollars someplace else.

People, you have to really get a grasp on this.

Killington will NEVER be the old Killington. You're comparing it to a legend in your own minds. It's dead, just let it go, and go someplace else, and drop it.

These threads are annoying, but this suggestion is useless.. You to realize this is an internet forum right? It's naive at best to ask people this. Many people complaining are married to Killington by property ownership or at least a long history there and are simply not going to choose a new resort. Also it doesn't seem unreasonable at all to expect some change in philosophy from the current management at K considering that (at least according the available metrics) that business levels are falling. I think continuing to highlight the issues in a place where people that matter will see it (like this thread) may have some effect.

 

[thetrailboss]

From what I've read, they are interested in making the same $$$ if not more with fewer skiers and riders.

 

[SkiDork]

Christ, you guys are like stalker ex-girlfriends who just don't get that it's over.

1 big difference. If you get dumped by a gf/bf there are tons of others who are the same/better. Or if a company like GM pisses you off the Ford or Chrysler product is relatively easy to switch to.

But buying a ski area product has a lot more attached to it that isn't easy to give up, as mentioned by others here. So the GF comparison is apples and oranges.

 

[Bubbartzky]

Question. How much of that change is becouse people bitched for pages that they thought the management sux0rs, Those Id10t's! And how much of the change is because buisness is down? Vote with your wallets! Getting all sort of Highwaystar on a message boards doesn't help.

Most important, if I where them, it would make me.. This is important to..

*NOT WANT TO DEAL WITH ANSWERING ANY QUESTIONS ON AZ IN THE FUTURE*

Clearly the changes they made in year 2 and appear to be planning in year 3 are the result of business being down. People voted with their wallets. What gets said on these message boards is merely a vocalization (or written record?) of the issues that caused people to go elsewhere.

 

[mondeo]

People are invested in real estate. Plus the geography of Killington makes it very appealling. It is already a decent car ride, and I would not want to add another hour to get up to Sugarbush every weekend.

There is no mountain south of K that could keep me interested for a whole season.

+1. The mountain's location/terrain/snowfall offset the management.

I get tcharron's point, but complaining on message boards does have some merit. Not a Jersey Joey style b**** fest that will just be ignored, but civily airing your gripes helps management understand why people are upset and maybe can make some changes. I think overall most rational people would say that POWDR has gradually improved since they began (though the amount of improvement is debatable,) with spinning more lifts, re-extending the season in both directions somewhat, etc. Part of that is from customer feedback.

 

[JerseyJoey]

And now we're HAND HOLDING while singing kumbaya, protesting the evil, vile supermarket ski area. Guys, it's become obviouse.

You're not their core anymore. And if you where smart, you wouldn't be their customers anymore.

WTF are you talking about? They have no core customer base anymore. Who is their core? Huh? Who? It used to be me. It's not anymore. It's nobody. There is no core.

You know as little about Killington as Nyberg does. Some people can't just get up and make another ski area their new home. Some of us are tied to Killington. We tied ourselves to Killington for a number of reasons. Nyberg has taken those reasons away.

It would appear that you're the one who's singing Kumbaya on Nyberg's behalf. It's obvious that you know little about this part of Vermont, so listen and learn. When a ski area goes from nothing but superlatives to nothing less than a bitchfest towards its new owners, someone has F'ed up. Care to guess who that someone is? Listen and learn.

 

[icedtea]

And now we're HAND HOLDING while singing kumbaya, protesting the evil, vile supermarket ski area. Guys, it's become obviouse.

You're not their core anymore. And if you where smart, you wouldn't be their customers anymore.

Christ, you guys are like stalker ex-girlfriends who just don't get that it's over.

It is this type of attitude that has allowed our country to go down the drain.

Stand up for what you believe in!

 

[bobbutts]

Question. How much of that change is becouse people bitched for pages that they thought the management sux0rs, Those Id10t's! And how much of the change is because buisness is down? Vote with your wallets! Getting all sort of Highwaystar on a message boards doesn't help.

Most important, if I where them, it would make me.. This is important to..

*NOT WANT TO DEAL WITH ANSWERING ANY QUESTIONS ON AZ IN THE FUTURE*

In this thread you are the problem, not Highwaystar. Note that he came on and politely asked some on topic questions. You came along and attacked everyone with sarcastic and unreasonable posts.

 

[RootDKJ]

This thread now reads like the Kzone of two years ago...lol

fwiw...I too enjoy what Killington (and the general area) has to offer, but I'm voting with my wallet this year.