AZ Challenge 2009: Chris Nyberg, Killington/Pico

[Highway Star]

You can already use the interconnect in one direction. Just bring your long poles!

I'm curious about skiing from Killington to Pico, see this thread:

http://www.killingtonzone.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=27048

Just wanted to post this up and kick it around a bit. The maps are a traversing route from the top of the rams head quad, over to the bottom of the summit glades at pico. It follows the contours of the hillside. Was thinking about doing it last year but didn't really give it a try.

This route is roughly 2-1/2 miles, with a 500ft vertical drop, which works out to a 4% grade. That's pretty flat, but still traverseable on firmer snow. I think it would be virtually impossible in powder snow. It would put you out at the bottom of the summit glades, with access to the summit quad. Are the trees too dense anywhere? Is it too rocky or are there bad ravines/gullys? Stream crossings?

Might be fun (and practical even) if it could be done in 15-20 minutes. It takes 15 minutes to drive from K to Pico, not counting walking to the car, taking boots off, etc, then you have to ride the lower lift.

What do you think?

 

[RootDKJ]

Question:

Can you move the shark fin from the skye peak lift line?

Lol. I'm amazed after all these years nobody ha
s taken a big old sledgehammer to that during the off-season.

 

[Highway Star]

Question:

Can you move the shark fin from the skye peak lift line?

I think I had suggested earlier in this thread that they take that whole area of lower Wildfire, Skye Quad liftline, Growler, and join it all together into one huge glade/extreme terrain park, as a continuation of the stash. There are some excellent rock/cliff lines clearly seen to both sides of the liftline, that would ski much better with some trimming of the trees (they are just too tight right now). It's really not even that much work, just taking out the worst of the stumps in the liftline, some deadfall/brush in the woods, etc. Oh, and moving the park....

Chris, can you do something like that? Thanks!!!

 

[thetrailboss]

Not trying to be a jerk or over-argue this, but it comes up all the time and people tend to get things mixed up...

Here's the permits for the pipeline.........somewhat interesting reading. Approved Nov. 1997. Sunrise closed after the '98-'99 season, but not because of the pipeline.

http://www.nrb.state.vt.us/lup/decisions/1998/1r0813-5-eb-fco.pdf
http://www.nrb.state.vt.us/lup/decisions/1998/1r0813-5-eb-lup.pdf

2000: Snowmaking Pipeline to Woodward Reservoir Completed; increases snowmaking capacity 30%.

SOURCE: Lorentz, pp 344.

As to when it was permitted, that was earlier in 1997.

The NEP Lift was relocated in 1999. Lorentz 285. Reason: no point in having it since Parker Gore was a no-go.

 

[Geoff]

that's the point I'm making, but more so that the Skye Peak lift should have taken much higher priority over the Needles Eye lift. And I disagree with JJ on Snowdon. I'd much rather a HSQ over there than on Needles. As for the comment about knowing Killington. While I haven't skied there in 8 years, my family had a home right down the road near Lake Rescue. We were Okemo pass holders, but I skied Killington at least 50 times during the 80's and early 90's. I know the mountain well.

In my opinion, a high speed quad will destroy the skiing surface on Snowdon. It has nothing to do with uphill capacity. People don't ride the Snowdon quad midweek so the total 7-day traffic on the natural snow terrain is very light relative to the rest of the mountain. Snowdon and Southridge are the only good natural snow surface left. Please don't wreck either of them with high speed lifts.

 

[deadheadskier]

In my opinion, a high speed quad will destroy the skiing surface on Snowdon. It has nothing to do with uphill capacity. People don't ride the Snowdon quad midweek so the total 7-day traffic on the natural snow terrain is very light relative to the rest of the mountain. Snowdon and Southridge are the only good natural snow surface left. Please don't wreck either of them with high speed lifts.

Fair enough, you would know.

I'm not sure whether or not I'd agree with you if K was my home hill. I never wished that Stowe didn't have the Gondola or Forerunner HSQ and wasn't upset when they replaced the Big Pig with the HSQ on Spruce.


Pretty much the only two lifts I can think of that I would never want to see go high speed are the MRG single and Castlerock

 

[mountainman]

It is what it is.

This is not a question. Once a the leader in the industry is now just a follower. Yes the mountain will always be there, but not the leaders any more. The mountian is becoming just another mountain. Sad but true. The terrain will never change which it's is best selling point. Losing the longest ski season has not help. The most powerful snowmaking system is not what is use to be. Grooming has become medicore at best. Killington was built on a lot of creative people that have worked their over the years. The mountain used to sell itself, but other resort have given more than Killington in the past 10 years. Like the title say's it is what it is. Enjoy the mountain for what it is, cause it will always be there. No need to ask a question.
It's sad that all of the bussiness on the access road are paying the price for once what use to be the leaders in the industry. Will it ever change for the good only time will tell.

 

[BigK]

 

[BigK]

Question 1:

Will there be any changes in Lift operations for the upcoming season or should we expect the same as last year?

Question 2:

Will there be any changes in the early season snowmaking / expansion from what unfolded last season?

Question 3:

Is there anything new to report about the interconnect? Some type of timeline with a PDF map with the Interconnect and Village would be welcome!

Question 4:

Can we please have a longer season and return to the Beast of the East?

Question 5:

Is there any Janitorial positions available for the upcoming winter season? If so, is a GED needed for this position? Thanks

 

[icedtea]

I think I had suggested earlier in this thread that they take that whole area of lower Wildfire, Skye Quad liftline, Growler, and join it all together into one huge glade/extreme terrain park, as a continuation of the stash. There are some excellent rock/cliff lines clearly seen to both sides of the liftline, that would ski much better with some trimming of the trees (they are just too tight right now). It's really not even that much work, just taking out the worst of the stumps in the liftline, some deadfall/brush in the woods, etc. Oh, and moving the park....

Chris, can you do something like that? Thanks!!!

There is definitely some nice cliffs line throughout that whole area. Killington should embrace its glade skiing some more. A little maintenance in some of these places would go a long way.

 

[Newpylong]

In my opinion, the sooner the two clunkers on Snowdon can be replaced, the better. I do think a high speed lift would have an effect on skiing conditions - but not as much as many people are predicting. It is some of the best skiing on the mountain, but a lot of times I'm not even in the mood to bother with it because of the Quadrapalegic.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

In my opinion, the sooner the two clunkers on Snowdon can be replaced, the better. I do think a high speed lift would have an effect on skiing conditions - but not as much as many people are predicting. It is some of the best skiing on the mountain, but a lot of times I'm not even in the mood to bother with it because of the Quadrapalegic.

I agree..those Snowdon runs are fun but 10 minutes+ for a 1,000 vert fixed grip lift is crazy..reminds me of back before they had the high speeds at Blue..

 

[icedtea]

I agree..those Snowdon runs are fun but 10 minutes+ for a 1,000 vert fixed grip lift is crazy..reminds me of back before they had the high speeds at Blue..

Haha....I guess you wouldn't be up for the late season hike to the top of snowdon for some goods.

Snowdon is a great spot, that lift keeps the gapers and day trippers away, some great pow stashes there which do not get tracked as quick as spots off K1.

I'd like to see the South Ridge Triple replaced, the last stretch can be brutal and the stashes there are definitely less well known and some even require hiking which will keep most away.

 

[deadheadskier]

As much as I can appreciate fixed grip lifts reducing traffic and prolonging Powder, I think people over estimate the impact. You're talking about something getting tracked out maybe 2 hours faster with high speed lift. 2 hours, and that might be an exageration. At a place like Killington that is SO HUGE, I'm not even sure that that would be the case. I say leave the slow lifts at Castlerock and MRG because the terrain acreage is much smaller, but also of far better quality / demand on a Powder day that at those place I think the difference would be huge.

At the end of the day, this is the East we're talking about here. Maybe 1 day in 7 is a powder day....maybe. Preserving a couple of hours of tracks isn't enough of a benefit for me to deal with a crappy slow lift the rest of the season. Snowdon has some of the better cruising terrain at K, but dealing with those crappy lifts to ski it always annoyed me.

 

[icedtea]

For the most part I only get up on the weekends, this will be especially true this season.. So those extra 2 hours of fresh powder are PRICELESS

 

[BushMogulMaster]

Just a friendly technical reminder: detachable quads may make an area more trafficked due to increased "desirability" of the fast lift, but they do not necessarily increase capacity. In fact, it is perfectly normal to see a detachable quad with a lower hourly capacity than a neighboring fixed grip. The industry average is 2400 people per hour on a quad, regardless of fixed vs. detachable grip.

 

[Geoff]

Just a friendly technical reminder: detachable quads may make an area more trafficked due to increased "desirability" of the fast lift, but they do not necessarily increase capacity. In fact, it is perfectly normal to see a detachable quad with a lower hourly capacity than a neighboring fixed grip. The industry average is 2400 people per hour on a quad, regardless of fixed vs. detachable grip.

That's not the point. Midweek, Snowdon is mostly ignored and it sees less people on weekends than the other lifts. If they put a high speed quad there, the surface would have the snot beat out of it. It's not the speed of the lift or the capacity that impacts the skiing surface, it's how many people ride the lift per day.

The other advantage of the existing quad is that it's always running. It can spin in high winds. It is relatively quick to de-ice. If you put a high speed quad there, it will be closed a lot just like Superstar. You can still navigate the mountain in big wind with the Snowdon quad and the Glades triple. You'd have people parked at Bear getting stranded when there's no way to get back because all the detatchable lifts are on wind hold.

Like I said, I'm totally happy Killington doesn't have the money to replace that lift. The first place Killington should address to fix lift line bottlenecks with extra uphill capacity is the Rams Head high speed quad. That is invariably the worst lift line on the mountain and the people using the lift are the premium day ticket people. I'd run a second high speed quad up to the top of Rams Head. That would be big bang for the buck since it opens up some new intermediate acres. The other thing that's needed far more than a Snowdon upgrade is a second high speed lift to get people out of Snowshed. The people here are focused on the advanced terrain. The big spenders with kids who book lodging through the Killington 800 number and buy full price day tickets start their life at Snowshed and Rams Head. The experience there right now is awful.

 

[icedtea]

OPEN BITTERSWEET HEADWALL!

Trim up Old Superstar a Bit!!

 

[Highway Star]

Just a friendly technical reminder: detachable quads may make an area more trafficked due to increased "desirability" of the fast lift, but they do not necessarily increase capacity. In fact, it is perfectly normal to see a detachable quad with a lower hourly capacity than a neighboring fixed grip. The industry average is 2400 people per hour on a quad, regardless of fixed vs. detachable grip.

True, but not the whole story.

800 people could take 3 runs per hour on the snowdon quad - 10 minutes riding the lift, and 10 minutes skiing, times 3. Put those 800 people on a HSQ, and they will spend 5 minutes in line, 5 on the lift, and 10 skiing. However, if only 600 people show up, they will get 4 runs in per hour, with no waiting, taking 2400 skier-runs per hour. If 600 people ski on the current snowdon quad, they will only be able to take 1800 skier-runs per hour. Thus, until capacity is reached and there is a signifigant wait, the HSQ will be putting 1/3 more traffic on the trails and snow surface. I don't think this an insignifgant difference, considering midweek traffic levels.

 

[tcharron]

Guys, these threads are for AZ challenge questions.