Big Burke announcement

[Andrew]

To be clear everyone is upset about what Ary said and did.

Sorry TB. Long day.

 

[thetrailboss]

Sorry TB. Long day.

I think we all agree this is not your fault. Sorry that this is what you have to deal with in what should be an exciting start to the ski season.

 

[MVinME]

I'll still go to KT for the riding. Best XC stuff is still on the darling hillside anyway. I knew the utopian vision of the permission based access to private lands would be screwed up some rich idiot at some point. All we can hope is that it blows up in their face and the resort changes hands to someone with more vision. IMHO

 

[BenedictGomez]

Some people here are finally beginning to see the evils of EB-5 and the economic folly of artificial inorganic manipulation of the marketplace.

Took a while, but late is better than never.

 

[yeggous]

Some people here are finally beginning to see the evils of EB-5 and the economic folly of artificial inorganic manipulation of the marketplace.

Took a while, but late is better than never.

People want to dump money into the US in exchange for a green card. That's better than some other ways we give them out.

 

[BenedictGomez]

People want to dump money into the US in exchange for a green card. That's better than some other ways we give them out.

The rich people jumping the long-line part isnt the problem (though, yeah, it's kind of ugly).

The problem is the unintended consequences of monkeying with the market. Most people with a facile view of economics will say, "what's the problem! Tons of money is coming in from foreigners, it didnt cost American's anything, and it will create jobs!" - but just give it about a decade and you'll see the problems. The jobs dont come, not really anyway, and they're often transient and always fraudulently overestimated. And in this particular case, they're so hungry to bring in $500,000 checks, it's painfully obvious they couldnt care less how it's done. An unproven biotech in Newport Vermont? A German window manufacturer? An "International Airport" in Newport? A distribution center for The Jelly of the Month Club? It really doesnt matter, just keep forwarding those uber-rich foreigner's checks please. This will not end well.

 

[Steve@jpr]

To be clear here, I think the article was definitely diplomatic and represented what happened in a perfectly legitimate way . I'm just saying that I too have a pretty good read on what's happening at higher levels and if I was asked to read the leaves, I'd say something will, in fact, get worked out in time for the spring.

Thanks Steve. I guess we are all hoping that you will help them out.

And as for the article, I have to disagree. It's easy to slam the press, but I don't think that it's there fault what happened here. Ary called someone from VTDigger and smiled for the camera as he said what he said. I think that the article was pretty diplomatic about what happened--I've heard from local friends that things were not as you suggest but I understand you're in a tough spot. I will also say that Ary has rubbed a lot of people the wrong way.

 

[deadheadskier]

Well on another forum someone else posted a link to a MTB Google Group. Check out the "Kingdom Trails and Burke..." thread. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/uvmba All I can say, if this is an actual unedited quote from Ary is HOLY SHIT.:-o

"now I have stopped it with great pleasure." That can't be real unless this guy is Gordon Gekko. It has to be someone posing as Ary. The yahoo email address is a red flag, but I could see how he wouldn't want to use a qburke.com email and have their servers overloaded. :lol:

 

[Nick]

I'd be surprised if That email was real. Should be taken with a huge grain of salt.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using AlpineZone mobile app

 

[dlague]

Stepped on? Pay to play.

or don't

other than Ide and the crew that dropped their lives into making those trails, who is getting stepped on? You guys crack me up, pedal your ass up the hill. I like how everyone is jumping ship as if that somehow that gets the message the to Q, he just lets more people go when the bottom line is out of reach, way to stick it to the man. Ski it, support KT, support the NEK, I don't get the imaginary lines being drawn.

Good point!

 

[deadheadskier]

I'll step in and take some slugs for Andrew (who is more than capable but out being capable, somewhere else, at the moment.)

First, with respect to KT, Burke is far from taking its lift and going home. Ary Jr felt that the contract didn't work but remains interested in working something out so that everything is connected come Spring. The media characterized the 'severing of ties' in a much more dramatic/hyperbolic way than what reality represents, but I completely understand it. Lots of this could have happened differently, should have been tended to with more touch and it wasn't. That's on all of us involved with this particular incident.

As to the Q before Burke, it is what it is. Whether or not I, nor anyone else without a last name that rhymes with Quiros, agrees with the strategy can certainly still be germane to the conversation-but it, in reality, doesn't matter. I can say that the family felt that adding the Q was positioning the resort differently, and wanted to as a result of year's of financial water-treading, and acted on that instinct. I don't have the year's of association to the brand that many do, but I still empathize with those that feel awfully weird about this; When Warren Haynes filled the Jerry role and they still called themselves the Dead, I felt icky too. Worse when Joan Osborne got involved. Even wrote them a letter. They ignored me.

Suffice to say, Andrew will continue to report back here from time to time, and you've all been kind enough to not expect parted waters from him. We are hopeful things can improve. If that's all we have to go on at this point, at least for us, it has to be enough.

Regardless, I hope all of you have a good holiday and we have better things to talk about in 2014.

Steve

Very reasonable thoughts Steve regarding the Kingdom Trails. Hope it works out for all.

As for the Grateful Dead analogy. You might say I had an opinion on that matter too.

Though, I don't think the comparison is fully accurate. An accurate comparison would be if Warren came into the band, fired Bobby, said he was going to be both Bobby and Jerry and then change the name of the band to W-Dead.

 

[zeke]

"now I have stopped it with great pleasure." That can't be real unless this guy is Gordon Gekko. It has to be someone posing as Ary. The yahoo email address is a red flag, but I could see how he wouldn't want to use a qburke.com email and have their servers overloaded. :lol:

not saying that the content of the email is real, but the email address is accurate. and based on the arrogance of the Q rename and the way other relationships are being/have been handled, i don't find the petulant child tone surprising at all. that and the fact that neither of the marketing guys called its authenticity into question makes me think it's probably genuine.

 

[dlague]

I am amazed the three threads are so active around this issue! Clearly it sparked a fire! I hope it is as Steve said and they work it out! Thinking about I will ski there just because it used to be my home mountain along with Jay Peak! We generally only go there two or three time per season! I will eat down in the town to support locals!

 

[Steve@jpr]

Touche my friend, touche.

Very reasonable thoughts Steve regarding the Kingdom Trails. Hope it works out for all.

As for the Grateful Dead analogy. You might say I had an opinion on that matter too.

Though, I don't think the comparison is fully accurate. An accurate comparison would be if Warren came into the band, fired Bobby, said he was going to be both Bobby and Jerry and then change the name of the band to W-Dead.

 

[DJAK]

that and the fact that neither of the marketing guys called its authenticity into question makes me think it's probably genuine.

Let's all say a little prayer tonight for our friends Andrew and Steve (and the staff/community as a whole at Burke). I've been holding some serious Qtongue for a while watching this Qtrain ride off the Qtracks hoping it was just a bad call (about the Q) but if that email is genuine (and I agree with the above statement), then only some "change management headaches", which is a PC term for someone else leading the resort, or at least power being distributed, is going to allow for a successful future. Leaders that operate without concern for ramifications (especially when they have just created a storm) end up having their orgs consumed by them.

Mistakes happen. Acknowledging them is the first step in solving them (not just having Steve and Andrew try to commendably clean up after). The letter Q was the first step in creating this island Q2 is putting himself on. Can he acknowledge errors? TBD. If he can then maybe he can learn on the job and lead. That's the preferred solution. Clearly the Q family cares deeply about the NEK. No question about that.

There's such a thing as a bad hire. Typically it's those with little to no experience in the field. Slapping the name on the resort in form of a stock symbol only draws more attention to the nepotism. Choice at this stage? Accept that maybe lineage doesn't equal resort leader or redistribute leadership so that there's someone who has done this before in the power circle. Starts with silently dropping the Q. It will taint the future till it's gone. Regardless of any excuses that exist for it's creation.

The Q clan clearly cares deeply about the region and the resort. It's not a question of passion. It's a question of can they stick to what they are good at and allow those that are good at running ski areas do it on their behalf. Or can they not. Quite the Question. I support the Quiros family. They are doing great things for Vermont. If they want to continue doing great things for Vermont they'll take this feedback, discuss it, and consider a reassessment of decisions made (that sort of thing is allowed).

One thing I know for sure, is that a decade in ski area marketing, communications and damage control does not qualify me to fly a helicopter. I sure hope we're not still talking about the Q in 2 months. I would think the Q clan would feel the same way. One way that happens though.. Mistakes happen. They can be remedied. Only once acknowledged. Would Q Red Sox be a good move? Same premise. Let's hit the reset button. It's right there in the form of Q Burke embracing a future as Burke Mountain in the community of East Burke, Vermont. You'll have 10,000 new friends in one day.

 

[Edd]

I was making some fun in another thread but it's difficult to overemphasize how wrongly the Q marketing thing can rub a person.

I understand that it can sound like a small thing being made a big deal of but saying the term QBurke out loud is like pissing in my ear. It's difficult to picture how this meeting must have gone. Professional adults sat around a table looking at each other and said "Yes, this is a good idea!" It sounds impossible.

If a poll were taken on this site you'd get close to zero percent support for the Q. I've only been to Burke a few times but I love it. I can only imagine how someone who is truly invested feels.

 

[Cannonball]

It's important to remember ....

 

[deadheadskier]

I was making some fun in another thread but it's difficult to overemphasize how wrongly the Q marketing thing can rub a person.

I understand that it can sound like a small thing being made a big deal of but saying the term QBurke out loud is like pissing in my ear. It's difficult to picture how this meeting must have gone. Professional adults sat around a table looking at each other and said "Yes, this is a good idea!" It sounds impossible.

If a poll were taken on this site you'd get close to zero percent support for the Q. I've only been to Burke a few times but I love it. I can only imagine how someone who is truly invested feels.

Not only all that but is there a single ski area in the country or even the world for that matter where the owner named the place after themselves? I'm drawing a blank.

 

[BenedictGomez]

is there a single ski area in the country or even the world for that matter where the owner named the place after themselves? I'm drawing a blank.

Do little ones count?

If so, there's a bunch, like Cochran's in Vermont, McIntyre Ski Area in New Hampshire, etc.....

 

[billski]

I skied at the Q yesterday. The downstairs has been remodeled to greatly accommodate inside ticket sales. They also moved out rentals and put brown-bag lunch tables and equipment cubbies in their stead.

The signs and trail maps outside were all being updated to the new graphic design. It reminds me of

I hope that the relationship BMA has with the Q does not become frayed. Hopefully there is some legal arrangement already grandfathered in.