Big Burke announcement

[Smellytele]

Not only all that but is there a single ski area in the country or even the world for that matter where the owner named the place after themselves? I'm drawing a blank.

Pats Peak

 

[AdironRider]

Lets be real, the previous marketing team sucked.

And, at the very least, people sure are talking about Burke now.

 

[ScottySkis]

Lets be real, the previous marketing team sucked.

And, at the very least, people sure are talking about Burke now.

Qqqqawwqqqqqqw stupid.

 

[thetrailboss]

Pats Peak

Very true. But the difference is that that family does not really parade themselves out in front of the place. They've got a solid manager in Kris Blombach and he does a great job. In my couple seasons there I never saw one Patenaude family member. They kept a low profile. Plus their "mountain" had no real name and they started the place themselves on their family's land. They were also locals.

Lets be real, the previous marketing team sucked.

And, at the very least, people sure are talking about Burke now.

The Q thing is being resoundingly rejected.

The other thing that I and others go, "WTF?" to is the whole "Judge" Pass name and website. That is really out there. I don't know if that was the previous marketing team's idea or not. I know that they did the best that they could with what they had. It might not have been as in your face or as visible as you can be, but it was there. It did need some improvement.

 

[thetrailboss]

I skied at the Q yesterday. The downstairs has been remodeled to greatly accommodate inside ticket sales. They also moved out rentals and put brown-bag lunch tables and equipment cubbies in their stead.

The signs and trail maps outside were all being updated to the new graphic design. It reminds me of

I hope that the relationship BMA has with the Q does not become frayed. Hopefully there is some legal arrangement already grandfathered in.

With the bottom line being in focus, I don't think that it was a very high priority to renovate the Lodge (the third time in ten years) or to make new signs and logos. The money spent on the latter easily could have made up for that $20k deal with KT.

 

[Smellytele]

Very true. But the difference is that that family does not really parade themselves out in front of the place. They've got a solid manager in Kris Blombach and he does a great job. In my couple seasons there I never saw one Patenaude family member. They kept a low profile. Plus their "mountain" had no real name and they started the place themselves on their family's land. They were also locals.

I was just saying the place is named after the owners. I agree they do not parade around and actually just blend in. They are there every now and then. Saw one today eating lunch having a beer blending in. Kris does do a great job with the place and they know their market and know how to make their market happy for the most part.

 

[thetrailboss]

I was just saying the place is named after the owners. I agree they do not parade around and actually just blend in. They are there every now and then. Saw one today eating lunch having a beer blending in. Kris does do a great job with the place and they know their market and know how to make their market happy for the most part.

Exactly.

 

[zeke]

Lets be real, the previous marketing team sucked.

And, at the very least, people sure are talking about Burke now.

it's not really about marketing, it's about an arrogant rich kid with no practical experience burning bridges with those who have experience. but what sucked so bad about the precious marketing team? not really sure where that's coming from

 

[nekmuffy]

Of course we all want Burke to thrive. Many of us were hopeful about the new ownership, particularly because we all like Jay and respect Bill Stenger. It was just unimaginable that any new owner/manager would see Kingdom Trails as a threat rather than a partner. If the new manager wanted to re-negotiate the contract with KTA that is reasonable. However, to refuse to make good on money collected for KTA at Burke is simply theft. And then to accuse KTA of taking advantage of Burke Mountain is ridiculous. I am 100% positive that Quiros did send that reply to the Upper Valley Mtn bike club member. And it is absolutely representative of his attitude, lack of professionalism, and lack of understanding of how a community can contribute to the success of a business. And what makes us all that more frustrated is that we do want to support our local mountain. But as some folks have noted we are at mercy to those who have purchased and now manage the mountain. Even if Quiros had to "clean house," we could live with that. Those that were "let go" were certainly recognized elsewhere in the community as valuable resources. And many of our friends and family still work at and benefit from Burke Mountain. But we are hurt. Hurt because we all work so hard to build and maintain community including the countless hours of volunteer work and landowner generosity that built kingdom trails, and local and not so local private money that have saved a mountain several times. Hurt is still a valid feeling in our reality. We put trust in others. We put trust in this new arrangement. It just all seems so crazy!!! Finally, Quiros uses financial stability as a reason for his decisions. I have yet to understand how his decision to not allow Kingdom Trails to groom Nordic Trails on QBurke property is anything but spiteful. He has broken a thread but not the fabric of the community of Burke and the Kingdom Trails Association. However, I believe the backlash and desire to have Quiros feel some pain is human nature, particularly when some of the decisions and statements seem unwarranted, egotistical, childish, and unnecessary. Yes, the conundrum is how do we make Quiros feel the consequences without hurting ourselves?

 

[the original trailboss]

Well said and welcome to AZ !

 

[fbrissette]

I have yet to understand how his decision to not allow Kingdom Trails to groom Nordic Trails on QBurke property is anything but spiteful.

Wow..... How pathetic..

 

[LONGBOARDR]

I hope this all gets resolved amicably as there could be expanding repercussions in the NEK with other projects.
The Q family are probably already feeling the consequences. Until now they have had a very low profile despite all that has been going on.
I got the impression Mr Q Sr was a prideful, self effacing type of guy.
Now they are getting all sorts of high profile negative publicity associated with their name and it probably hurts.
I noticed at the Stateside hotel opening that Q jr was next to dad and Shumlin in the center of things, what did he have to do with the hotel or Jay? Also noticed that Bill is off to the side, both his sons who work and manage Jay are not even in the picture. A picture is worth a thousand words.
In other news, Q just purchased a small sportplane company and will be relocating it to Newport.
A great fix would be to let Jr run the plane biz and have someone with experience and people skills run Burke.
Merry Christmas all, nasty weather here in NEK today

 

[the original trailboss]

And maybe, just maybe, its a good time to right-size the Mid-Burke project. The two-hotel/base lodge structure as planned will turn more heads than the Sheffield wind towers....

 

[billski]

The Q family are probably already feeling the consequences.

Can't say I agree. He owns the place, seems to have plentiful cash, so he can do what he wants, including taking the place down in flames. I'm no apologist at all, but it's a private concern on private property, which we have all benefited from in one form or another.

Look what happened to Tenny and Big Squaw (tentatively on the mend). If the family wants to squander their money, they have every right to. Reminds me of a company that I once worked for, many of you never have heard of; Wang Laboratories. The creator and world leader of the first word processor and desktop calculators embraced by millions. The 30-something son was knighted Dad's successor. In his tenure, he could not manage infighting but did manage to preside over the demise of a 30,000-employee, multi-billion dollar company in a matter of a couple of years.

It's my understanding the son is ex-military officer, who's subordinates loved working for. For some reason that is given as a reason to believe.

 

[Tin]

The perfect gift this holiday season...

 

[thetrailboss]

The perfect gift this holiday season...

View attachment 9904

Between this and FTN's proposed sweater I'd be set for Christmas.

 

[thetrailboss]

Of course we all want Burke to thrive. Many of us were hopeful about the new ownership, particularly because we all like Jay and respect Bill Stenger. It was just unimaginable that any new owner/manager would see Kingdom Trails as a threat rather than a partner. If the new manager wanted to re-negotiate the contract with KTA that is reasonable. However, to refuse to make good on money collected for KTA at Burke is simply theft. And then to accuse KTA of taking advantage of Burke Mountain is ridiculous. I am 100% positive that Quiros did send that reply to the Upper Valley Mtn bike club member. And it is absolutely representative of his attitude, lack of professionalism, and lack of understanding of how a community can contribute to the success of a business. And what makes us all that more frustrated is that we do want to support our local mountain. But as some folks have noted we are at mercy to those who have purchased and now manage the mountain. Even if Quiros had to "clean house," we could live with that. Those that were "let go" were certainly recognized elsewhere in the community as valuable resources. And many of our friends and family still work at and benefit from Burke Mountain. But we are hurt. Hurt because we all work so hard to build and maintain community including the countless hours of volunteer work and landowner generosity that built kingdom trails, and local and not so local private money that have saved a mountain several times. Hurt is still a valid feeling in our reality. We put trust in others. We put trust in this new arrangement. It just all seems so crazy!!! Finally, Quiros uses financial stability as a reason for his decisions. I have yet to understand how his decision to not allow Kingdom Trails to groom Nordic Trails on QBurke property is anything but spiteful. He has broken a thread but not the fabric of the community of Burke and the Kingdom Trails Association. However, I believe the backlash and desire to have Quiros feel some pain is human nature, particularly when some of the decisions and statements seem unwarranted, egotistical, childish, and unnecessary. Yes, the conundrum is how do we make Quiros feel the consequences without hurting ourselves?

Welcome to the boards. And probably the most articulate "first" post I've seen here in some time.

If it is true what you say about Q now telling KT to not groom winter trails on Burke's land then that is an all-time low. So is the XC center not running this year? That would be huge. Granted it may not be a big moneymaker...yet...it is widely known to have some of the best terrain around.

You also confirm the ugly truth that I was hearing this summer and fall: that Q's beef was that he did not think he needed to pay KT anything despite the written contract that they had. That is really low...the kind of sh^& that I have to deal with on a regular basis in my line-of-work. Breach of contract is really a reflection of a lack of trust.

And a lot of folks merely think that folks are having gripes about "change" or "marketing". That's an oversimplification of what is going on. This is about the relationship between a community and the mountain; neighbors, friends. Q made it very clear what he thinks and it was neither good nor articulated well at all. Again, in 2000, those who were the powers to be realized that the community would be needed to bring the mountain back. They articulated a good message: you need the mountain and others do too. We can't simply rely on someone with deep pockets to do it all while some get a free-ride. Help us, get passes, make it happen. The community responded and responded greatly.

And Q got it initially...or at least said they did. Folks here forget the "focus" group dinner they had with Burke locals back in April or May. The reports I got were that folks were OK with improvements and change, but all said "don't forget what makes this place special" and "don't forget the community". Some told me that they felt that Q2's attitude was "in one ear, out the other" or that they had already decided what they wanted to do. If this is the case, chalk this up what I said earlier here about, "how hard can it be to run a ski area? Just do what Bill and JPR do."

My unofficial reports are that this is really making a lot of locals upset, is hurting staff morale, and skiers and riders are not coming (probably because of the weather).

This is not progress.

 

[billski]

Between this and FTN's proposed sweater I'd be set for Christmas.

Do you think you could stand being reminded of this all day long?

 

[nekmuffy]

Kingdom Trails is operating a winter outdoor recreation center located across from the Wildflower Inn on Darling Hill. You can check out their website for details. They did have to abandon the Dashney Center and I think what was approximately 60 km of trails there due to a lack of agreement with QBurke. KT did use the shack that I suppose belongs to QBurke but I simply cannot see any other real expense to QBurke to allow KT to continue to operate out of the shack with its own equipment and employees. I am excited about KT's new operations that are greatly focusing the quality of product for fat bikers, Nordic skiers, snowshoers, sledding, and skating but am bummed about losing the beautiful terrain to which you reference. I see the lack of access for KT to groom the Nordic trails on QBurke property as a slap in the face to all the landowners who currently make Kingdom Trails possible. We know it is a very unique and fragile system of trust but it has worked pretty well for 20 years! According to QBurke's website they are grooming 6 km and the rest is "backcountry." They do say that current KT members have unrestricted use of the trails. But if QBurke can only provide 6 km, why not let KT provide 60 km? I don't get it. Oh yeah, and I don't think anyone makes money on Nordic. I'm pretty sure that KT Nordic operations are "subsidized" by mtn bikers. But so be it. Their mission is to provide recreation and stimulate the economy. Oh, and one more thing. The Burke community recently put together a hugely successful Bill Koch league. KT greatly supported that in many ways one of which was by purchasing and putting up a yurt - I was skiing there the day I saw at least a dozen volunteers putting it up. The Bill Koch league operated out of BMA and the Dashney center. It was a location that energized the entire Burke Mountain scene. I'm sure the Bill Koch league will continue to thrive with its core of passionate volunteers but it is just another ding in the community caused by QBurke that will be banged out and buffed up by the locals.

 

[thetrailboss]

Do you think you could stand being reminded of this all day long?

I'm pretty disappointed by the stupidity, Bill. This is my home mountain after all.

And honestly I remember the good times with my friends and family there....and what Burke is really about. Not what's going on now.