Big Burke announcement

[thetrailboss]

There also is A LOT of negative feedback on Facebook about the "Q" and the KT debacle. I've seen that someone at the mountain has tried to diplomatically respond (presumably Andrew) and one theme that has emerged is the "the press got it wrong, it's not that bad" line. Sorry, but this has to stop. Ary said what he said; I don't think there's much ambiguity there. It's good to admit that there might be a problem, but shooting the messenger is pretty weak.

And someone else suggested it and I agree: Q Sr. needs help with his new plane factory and Q2 is a pilot so he should move on to that. In the words of the late Senator George Aiken (R-VT), "let's declare victory and go home."

 

[o3jeff]

It's difficult to picture how this meeting must have gone. Professional adults sat around a table looking at each other and said "Yes, this is a good idea!" It sounds impossible.

My guess is there were 6 people that thought it was a bad idea.....The rest probably agreed with the Qjr to gets some brownie points and to stroke his Q ego.

 

[thetrailboss]

My guess is there were 6 people that thought it was a bad idea.....The rest probably agreed with the Qjr to gets some brownie points and to stroke his Q ego.

I think you're giving them too much credit. I think it's safe to say that it was a meeting of one.

 

[DJAK]

http://vtdigger.org/2013/12/22/q-burke-kingdom-trails-mend/

A steady, experienced hand has taken the rudder, if only for a moment. All they need to do now (an opinion) is accept that naming the place after themselves while inserting the chosen one as President was not the best way to be welcomed or taken seriously. My guess is either the pre-Q is silently phased out (to buy back some credibility - it's like dragging an anchor of ridiculousness) and/or Q2 is reassigned to a role more in his wheelhouse (aviation biz perhaps), of which there are many. Would be great to see the guy do well in the region and perhaps even get back into resort leadership after some time to learn.

Without that change, Bill is likely to be doing these after the fact saves more than once.

 

[dlague]

http://vtdigger.org/2013/12/22/q-burke-kingdom-trails-mend/

A steady, experienced hand has taken the rudder, if only for a moment. All they need to do now (an opinion) is accept that naming the place after themselves while inserting the chosen one as President was not the best way to be welcomed or taken seriously. My guess is either the pre-Q is silently phased out (to buy back some credibility - it's like dragging an anchor of ridiculousness) and/or Q2 is reassigned to a role more in his wheelhouse (aviation biz perhaps), of which there are many. Would be great to see the guy do well in the region and perhaps even get back into resort leadership after some time to learn.

Without that change, Bill is likely to be doing these after the fact saves more than once.

Well that is good news and we can thank Bill for that!

 

[teqeeler]

it's not really about marketing, it's about an arrogant rich kid with no practical experience burning bridges with those who have experience. but what sucked so bad about the precious marketing team? not really sure where that's coming from

This whole Qburke thing reminds me of the movie "out cold"

The comments of the owner seem like they could have happened easily by someone who is in charge.
I don't no if anyone has seen our governor in action but he is probably one of the most verbally challenged people i have ever heard in charge of something in my life. He has made many asinine statements as a public figure, even with a PR team he still can't help himself. i can imagine an owner of a private company doing alot worse.

 

[polski]

As to the Q before Burke, it is what it is. Whether or not I, nor anyone else without a last name that rhymes with Quiros, agrees with the strategy can certainly still be germane to the conversation-but it, in reality, doesn't matter. I can say that the family felt that adding the Q was positioning the resort differently, and wanted to as a result of year's of financial water-treading, and acted on that instinct.

In other words, prepending the "Q" was a business decision. Fine. I'm all for owners of a for-profit business taking steps to stem historical losses, turn things around and make a valued place sustainable. But prudent business leaders also evaluate their decisions for effectiveness and net impact on the bottom line, before and after they are made. I am curious whether any quality market research was done beforehand or is planned down the road for cost/benefit analysis. I also am curious what those costs were, as logo design can cost an eye-popping amount and changing out the old logo wherever it was used also is non-trivial. I don't expect answers to these questions from a private company (though I'm particularly curious how rebranding costs compared to the $20K in the KT dispute) but just wonder the extent to which this was a carefully thought out vs. vanity move.


On a barely related note, a little story for a yuk: In the late 1990s there was a Massachusetts-based tech company called CMGI with an grossly outsized stock price despite the fact nobody really knew what they did or how they ever could come close to justifying their valuation. At the peak of the tech bubble CMGI bought the naming rights to the Patriots' new stadium in Foxboro. Before the next season started the tech bubble burst, CMGI bailed out of the stadium deal and Gillette stepped in. At which point some wag said CMGI stood for "Call Me Gillette Instead."

 

[wa-loaf]

On a barely related note, a little story for a yuk: In the late 1990s there was a Massachusetts-based tech company called CMGI with an grossly outsized stock price despite the fact nobody really knew what they did or how they ever could come close to justifying their valuation. At the peak of the tech bubble CMGI bought the naming rights to the Patriots' new stadium in Foxboro. Before the next season started the tech bubble burst, CMGI bailed out of the stadium deal and Gillette stepped in. At which point some wag said CMGI stood for "Call Me Gillette Instead."

Ha, I worked for a CMGI subsidy back then called iCast.com we blew through $100 million in a year before the whole ship went down.

 

[thetrailboss]

That article confirmed that the Email that surfaced on that bike site and that FTN posted was in fact legit. All I can say is wow. In my years on AZ and in skiing in general I have never seen anything that even remotely comes close to the shear arrogance there. I was hoping that someone would admit it was a hoax, but the fact that a CEO sent that Email to a guest is just completely unreal.

 

[thetrailboss]

This whole Qburke thing reminds me of the movie "out cold"

The comments of the owner seem like they could have happened easily by someone who is in charge.
I don't no if anyone has seen our governor in action but he is probably one of the most verbally challenged people i have ever heard in charge of something in my life. He has made many asinine statements as a public figure, even with a PR team he still can't help himself. i can imagine an owner of a private company doing alot worse.

I'm really having a hard time not commenting on Shumlin or his land deals, lack of understanding of conflict of interest rules, stupid comments, inability to listen to other POVs, and basically ruining the state. But I can't talk politics...oops...too late. :roll:

As to Burke, sounds like Bill did intervene. He's probably :roll: as well since he probably was not in a position to question his deep pocketed partner on this call.

 

[deadheadskier]

Happy to see Bill stepping in. How could he not given recent developments? Jay is the "mothership" and it's Bill's baby. Negativity surrounding Burke could be harmful to Jay ultimately.

Hopefully the damage control extends beyond lip service to local media. *crosses fingers*

 

[kingdom-tele]

I'm really having a hard time not commenting on Shumlin or his land deals, lack of understanding of conflict of interest rules, stupid comments, inability to listen to other POVs, and basically ruining the state. But I can't talk politics...oops...too late. :roll:

As to Burke, sounds like Bill did intervene. He's probably :roll: as well since he probably was not in a position to question his deep pocketed partner on this call.

A skill we can could all use a little work on. Little Q should use this as a wake up call, he is gonna have one heck of hole to dig out of now that the grudge has been firmly implanted. Action still speaks louder IMO.

 

[oldtimer]

This weekend's Burke report

Had guests up Saturday & parked initially at the base lodge since we had beginners with us. Lower chair not running for a couple of hours. So we moved up to the mid Burke.

1) no tickets there. Had to go back to the base. Still no lower chair. We drive back up.

2) Friends wife stepped in a CLOSSAL puddle in front of the mid Burke. Why? because both groomers were parked right where the ski racks normally are. You had to go around them to get into the building. Sadly there was a deep and wide puddle there that many, many walked in. Does "world class" customer service really involve being too cheap to buy a couple more extension chords so the grooming equipment isn't part of an obstacle course to get into the lodge? I understand that they don''t want to drive them trough the mud back to the maintenance area every night in early season, but they used to at least park them away from the building.

3) Willoughby trail (only way off the top) skied nicely. By the time we made one run the lower chair was back open so we picked up the beginner and skied down. Snow on most of the trails down there was thin but adequate. J-bar is NOT a beginner area- they have built terrain park features on the beginner slope and something like a halfpipe below the magic carpet? I am not sure what that was but the magic carpet was not running anyway.

4) J-bar hill is a disaster and NOT SAFE for beginners. There is not enough room beside the terrain features for a beginner to ski. There is only a narrow flat strip that intermediate skiers can navigate happily, but not my friend's wife who needs a wide area for her big traverse technique. ALSO, when we were there, they were loading with only one attendant at the base of the j-bar. Since that attendant must stay by the buttons they can no longer run along and help a beginner. This is new. They used to be really good at chatting with the beginners and running along with them. There will be more falls and likely people getting tangled up as they learn how to ride the lift. If you have never had to work the bottom of a beginner's surface lift it is hard to understand how much help is needed by newbies. I understand that they are cutting expenses, but only one person there is STUPID. ALSO- the only way to make any use of those terrain park like features on the j-bar hill was to get some speed coming down Bunker hill and scoot through them. Do we really need that in the exact space I had a first time skier? I do not blame the folks who came in with speed as it was the only way the snake like feature make any sense.

All in all a hill I have skied at and loved for years totally failed my friends this weekend. This is NOT about the weather. There was plenty of cold earlier in the year to make snow and they chose to start late- no doubt when it was more efficient. (I skied on more open terrain at Bretton Woods over Thanksgiving then Burke this weekend). They have cut staff in areas that effect skier safety. They made boneheaded decisions about what to do with what used to be the beginner area- no doubt to appease the park crowd while they wait to make snow on their terrain park trail.

With the base lodge nearly empty, one of the staff did tell a family using the upper cafeteria for brown bagging that there is a brown bag area down in the basement. REALLY? on a rainy day in December when the lower lift did not run for hours. Ballsy & stupid.

Perhaps calmer heads will sort out the Kingdom trails mess, but who the hell is going to sort out the operational mess at Burke right now? Q2 has been lecturing the staff about delivering great customer service and doing more with less. The staff has NO CHANCE given what I saw this week. These are not minor operational glitches- This is a total lack of understanding of customer service and inexperience. They need HELP, now.

We left early- very, very sad.

 

[Smellytele]

Wow Oldtimer that doesn't sound good. hopefully they work the bugs out

 

[thetrailboss]

Not enough staff for the J Bar; insisting that folks eat in the basement; having a terrain park on your beginner trail. Awesome, just awesome. I'd be going nuts too.

 

[from_the_NEK]

I heard the news about Stenger this morning. This is encouraging ! Bill knows what it takes to run a recreation based resort. I know his focus has been on EB-5 recruiting recently so he may not have realized that the smoldering fire in East Burke was about to become an inferno. As stated earlier, Burke is a large part of the entire EB-5 initiative that Bill has been tirelessly promoting and building. A bad situation like the one Ary has created at Burke could very well lead potential investors to pull their money, or go elsewhere to invest. Now that Bill knows how bad things are, I’m sure steps will be taken to rebuild the bridges.

I also heard from inside sources earlier this weekend that staff morale was low at Burke (surprise). As an example, the lift attendant positions had been cut back (already a pretty barebones group). Then to further make a thankless job even less fun, apparently Ary even suggested they not get employee ski passes :-o. He finally relented and let them have passes in the end. But that is another good example that this guy has no idea what he is doing.

 

[Nick]

http://vtdigger.org/2013/12/22/q-burke-kingdom-trails-mend/

A steady, experienced hand has taken the rudder, if only for a moment. All they need to do now (an opinion) is accept that naming the place after themselves while inserting the chosen one as President was not the best way to be welcomed or taken seriously. My guess is either the pre-Q is silently phased out (to buy back some credibility - it's like dragging an anchor of ridiculousness) and/or Q2 is reassigned to a role more in his wheelhouse (aviation biz perhaps), of which there are many. Would be great to see the guy do well in the region and perhaps even get back into resort leadership after some time to learn.

Without that change, Bill is likely to be doing these after the fact saves more than once.

Was just reading this article and came to post it. Thanks for sharing.

In the comments is a post by the Kingdom Trail Association "staff and directors".

Dear Kingdom Trails Supporters,Would like to thank everybody who has voiced their support, concern, and willingness to help out over the past few days. Few organizations enjoy such a demonstrative, loyal membership. For that we feel truly thankful and humbled.
In regards to some of the comments that we’ve seen online in the past few days, we want to put a plug in for our community, many of whom include our friends who work at the mountain. The employees and management of QBurke Mountain Resort are a big part of our community here. We have, in most cases, worked with these folks for years. They’re our neighbors, friends, co-workers, and family members. While we respect your decisions in terms of voting with your wallet, we want you to know that everyone in this community, including Kingdom Trails, would feel the impact if you choose to enjoy your outdoor recreation- including skiing and snowboarding- elsewhere. Please don’t let the events of the past few days change your plans for the winter. We ski at and ride Burke, and plan on continuing to do so.
We also want to assure our users that cooler heads will prevail. Interested parties have reached out and stated that they would like to seek a resolution to our current situation. We are encouraged by the news, and look forward to a conversation that explores any future collaborations with QBurke that would best serve our community, our users, and our organizations.
We wish you all a happy holiday season, and hope to see you at the KT Nordic Adventure Center on Darling Hill soon.
Sincerely,
The staff and Directors of Kingdom Trail Association

 

[Nick]

That article confirmed that the Email that surfaced on that bike site and that FTN posted was in fact legit. All I can say is wow. In my years on AZ and in skiing in general I have never seen anything that even remotely comes close to the shear arrogance there. I was hoping that someone would admit it was a hoax, but the fact that a CEO sent that Email to a guest is just completely unreal.

I agree. It was so bad that I was pretty much 99.9% sure it was a fake.

 

[kingdom-tele]

it was clear he didn't know what he was doing from the news interviews, he has no past experience in the field. Classic bottom line gazer.

More sad is the fact he has remained silent through this whole debacle, allowing Bill to step in, furthering his distance from the community. How the hell is he going to manage it when it gets even more complex. He will be moving on if he can't manage the basics of communication.

Hang in there Burke. Your more than the Q and have outlasted stranger figures. I think the same should go for those who love to ski it too.

 

[DJAK]

it was clear he didn't know what he was doing from the news interviews, he has no past experience in the field. Classic bottom line gazer.

More sad is the fact he has remained silent through this whole debacle, allowing Bill to step in, furthering his distance from the community. How the hell is he going to manage it when it gets even more complex. He will be moving on if he can't manage the basics of communication.

Hang in there Burke. Your more than the Q and have outlasted stranger figures. I think the same should go for those who love to ski it too.

Well put.

Things you can do: Buy a ski area and put your son in charge without qualifications.
Things you can't do: Buy a ski area and put your son in charge without qualifications and expect it to go well.

Adding a typo in front of the ski area to draw more attention to that oddity only makes the issue worse.

Fixable problems though and ones we should not overly celebrate when they occur. The body of work by the Quiros family has bought them a chance to goof up once in a while. Here's to hoping.