Big Burke announcement

[BenedictGomez]

ski patrol was cutting a ramp down through the lip at the top of Corbetts all season. Its like a disney ride now.

That's the worst thing I've heard this season, it's the most iconic ski run in North America. What's the logic - Decrease injuries from people who have no business being in there? Selling more "I skied Corbet's Couloir" tee-shirts?

 

[benski]

That's the worst thing I've heard this season, it's the most iconic ski run in North America. What's the logic - Decrease injuries from people who have no business being in there? Selling more "I skied Corbet's Couloir" tee-shirts?

It sounds like an april fools joke.

 

[AdironRider]

I agreed with your view....in 2013. Things are WAY beyond "buck up and make it work" now.

I'm breaking my "one reply" to AdironRider here just to post a rebuttal to this.



This right here shows that you have no idea about this situation so you should probably stop making baseless accusations/assumptions about the locals and employees unless it is to ask questions to better understand what is going on.

The locals HAVE BEEN TRYING OUR BEST to work with "Q". However, he refuses to do so. Any criticism, even those brought in good faith and diplomatically, of his decisions just makes him double down and push his agenda that much harder. That is just it, Ary Jr will not work with the locals. Our hands are tied. At this point, the last thing we can do is boycott the place. Trust me when I say that no one really wants to resort to such a tactic but it is pretty much the only path left.

So blow the whole joint up and any remaining marketability, after multiple failed ownership groups, and hope for the best.

Look I do not envy the situation one bit, but this isn't going to be good for the mountain long term.

Long hours, asshole management, lack of listening and compromise. All shitty aspects of the work environment and ownership. But the paychecks still cash, and as far as I know he isn't breaking labor laws (please correct me if Im wrong but I would think even the oddball news ops up there would be all over it).

Destroying a large economic engine in an area already struggling economically is never a good thing. I may not be from there, but I disagree that it is the right move.

 

[AdironRider]

That's the worst thing I've heard this season, it's the most iconic ski run in North America. What's the logic - Decrease injuries from people who have no business being in there? Selling more "I skied Corbet's Couloir" tee-shirts?

 

[from_the_NEK]

I may not be from there, but I disagree that it is the right move.

So please, enlighten us oh wise Rider of Adirondack origin.

 

[AdironRider]

Well just quitting isn't helping.

The best ski areas aren't celebrated for their ownership (a point I alluded to with my Jackson comments), they are celebrated more often than not for the community that surrounds the place and loves it, warts and all.

Ary sounds like a genital wart, but just quitting on your local ski hill? I couldn't do it.

 

[thetrailboss]

So blow the whole joint up and any remaining marketability, after multiple failed ownership groups, and hope for the best.

Look I do not envy the situation one bit, but this isn't going to be good for the mountain long term.

Long hours, asshole management, lack of listening and compromise. All shitty aspects of the work environment and ownership. But the paychecks still cash, and as far as I know he isn't breaking labor laws (please correct me if Im wrong but I would think even the oddball news ops up there would be all over it).

Destroying a large economic engine in an area already struggling economically is never a good thing. I may not be from there, but I disagree that it is the right move.

Things are in the works to try to influence the direction of the mountain.

 

[fbrissette]

My understanding is that Ary, Sr. is NOT very active in Jay. That is Bill's show. Ariel is the money.

That is 100% correct.

 

[oldtimer]

double post

 

[fbrissette]

That's the worst thing I've heard this season, it's the most iconic ski run in North America. What's the logic - Decrease injuries from people who have no business being in there? Selling more "I skied Corbet's Couloir" tee-shirts?

Agreed. This is plain dumb. Check out this video. It shows the ramp. With the ramp, it is a 4-6 foot drop with a fast right turn.

http://www.tetongravity.com/video/ski/9-year-old-skis-corbets-couloir-like-a-champ
check at 1:30.

 

[from_the_NEK]

Things are in the works to try to influence the direction of the mountain.

Things are in the works. However, I know a lot of people (locals and non-locals) who are not going to frequent "Q"Burke until significant change to the operation is applied.

 

[oldtimer]

AR-
The head of ski patrol, all of the senior lift staff and maintenance staff have said quite publicly that they will not work at Burke next winter if JR is anywhere within 25 zip codes. What exactly do you think the mountain will be like next winter if JR can find all rookie folks to spin the lifts? These operations do not run themselves. Right now there is no economic engine. He has spent 3 years telling his staff they are useless and only he knows how to run a business. He has shitcanned everyone. He was supposed to deliver one thing- a hotel. He failed there. He is lying about how much staff he actually had on at the hotel all winter and the hours they were given- it was crickets there except for the one day of the bridal show. So, what exactly am I supporting if I buy a season pass?

 

[thetrailboss]

Things are in the works. However, I know a lot of people (locals and non-locals) who are not going to frequent "Q"Burke until significant change to the operation is applied.

That is exactly right and part of the message that will be relayed.

 

[Cannonball]

That is exactly right and part of the message that will be relayed.

But who is the message going to be relayed to? Someone who can actualy a difference (who would that be??)? Or just to the same people who haven't listened to it so far?

 

[deadheadskier]

But who is the message going to be relayed to? Someone who can actualy a difference (who would that be??)? Or just to the same people who haven't listened to it so far?

I had hopes for the Burke folks a year ago when Stenger stepped in and it was communicated that Ary was stepping aside.

That hasn't happened.

There was also a very brief time when Steve from Jay Peak was announced as GM.

Now who knows. It seems like a game of chicken between Ary and the locals as to who will flinch first.

I think Ary thinks that he can "fire" his way out of the situation; both employees and customers. That eventually he will have a staff that agrees with him and a new customer base to replace disgruntled former customer. That last train of thought works in large metros, but not at a place like Burke that is so remote.

I do think the locals are doing the right thing and voting with their wallets. Even without Ary there, that's probably a wise choice given what looks like a pretty bad legal situation the mountain maybe facing.

 

[VTKilarney]

I think that Ary will love it if people defer their season pass buying until after the price increase. I don't think that the customers will win this showdown.

 

[VTKilarney]

If Cannon was smart they would offer a special 2016/2017 rate to pass holders at other mountains.

 

[MEtoVTSkier]

I think that Ary will love it if people defer their season pass buying until after the price increase. I don't think that the customers will win this showdown.

I really don't think that will pay off for him either. I'd be willing to bet that those not willing to early buy, are already looking into skiing elsewhere next year.

 

[whitemtn27]

First the developer proceeds- this is a standard part of development projects and that money can be used for anything, it's money. Privately financed projects have this also and banks don't ask where the money is going. You build projects to make money. Who knows what the money was earmarked for but clearly they need it.

This is true, but if you are paying yourself developer proceeds out of EB-5 capital, do you need to spend it on something related to the EB-5 project entity? I don't know, and it seems like the state doesn't either. My point is not that this is necessarily illegal or inappropriate in general, but that it's a terrible reaction to have in this case.

There's 3 things here that look really bad:

-- They have been saying for months that the hotel developer isn't getting paid because the state won't release the funds. The state, however, says that regardless they are not withholding enough funds to cover the outstanding balance. Someone is lying or can't do math. If the hotel was 'fully funded', where'd that money go?

-- The developer contributions' to the project are also 'missing', either because they didn't make them or have a terrible accountant. Given they already tried to pay for hotel furniture with EB-5 money, I'm guessing 'didn't make them'. How many years do you amortize sheets and pillows over, anyway?

-- They have publicly stated they want to pay refunds to AnC Bio investors out of funds that are newly being collected. EB-5 investors can and do request refunds, for example if their immigration application is refused they get their money back. It is not uncommon for projects to hold EB-5 money in escrow for exactly this reason (unlike the state requiring it, which is happening here). So the most *charitable* interpretation is they didn't plan for anyone to ask for a refund before they started spending.

And the reaction is to complain about how they aren't getting paid their developer proceeds so they can, uh, go hire an architect for the aquatics center or some fool thing? My point is, you're in a hole, stop digging...

 

[from_the_NEK]

But who is the message going to be relayed to? Someone who can actualy a difference (who would that be??)? Or just to the same people who haven't listened to it so far?

That is the reservation I have about the "things in the works". Local community leaders and legislators already know what a shit show Ary has produced at "Q"Burke employment-wise. But realistically they are powerless to do anything about it. Bringing state/national level legislators (Governor, US Senators, and Congressman) up to speed on the situation probably won't have much effect either. "Q"Burke is a private business. Legislators can wag their fingers at Ary but they really can't do anything either.

So it is probably going to boil down to approaching the "Q" and laying out the cards. Either Ary Jr goes and a mountain manager with some semblance of competence is brought in and allowed to mend fences and get the place back on its feet OR a large contingent of pass holders walk out the door and let nature take its course and the "Q" fails completely.