Big Jay access closed from Jay Peak

[bvibert]

Anyone else hear about this? I was wondering if something like that would happen as a result of the illegal cutting over the summer...

http://www.telemarktalk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=556597

 

[drjeff]

Sounds like they had a nice "gentleman's agreement" worked out until a few ignorant folks with a sense of entitlement screwed things up

 

[David Metsky]

I actually don't mind closing access from the tram as I always skinned up from 242. But people will try to work around the closed access from Jay I'm sure. It'll be interesting to see how things unfold this winter.

 

[thetrailboss]

That, as well as people almost every year get lost skiing in the BC at Jay....we had someone get lost on Stateside this weekend and that launched a massive search.

 

[riverc0il]

Ouch, that really sucks. I will likely be at that meeting this Saturday to hear what they have to say. Might be a bit of lynch mob. Rightly so. Any one following the boards this Summer knows how adamantly pissed off I was about the cut. Disgust would be putting it mildly and I still hope these guys get the book thrown at them. But limiting access from Jay Peak is only going to make a bad situation worse. Now there is a big fat bullseye on the "Jailbird Chute" as it has become known as. They would have been better off letting this wash under the bridge quietly. They just gave Big Jay skiers (and people who were not Big Jay skiers but now are going to seek it out due to notoriety) a big fat reason to be defiant. Hell, I am considering skinning up this winter and being defiant once enough snow settles in (as apparently according the TTips thread, the original plan was say it could be skied once the base level is high enough). This is just making a bad situation worse.

Hey, whatever.... even deeper powder and even more untracked lines for those of us willing to skin.

The frustrating thing here is there was no dialog or conversation or consensus. Just a big ole fat this is the way it is. Who do they think they are punishing? Someone in that TTips thread said it very well that they are not punishing the "backcountry skiing" community. Any one in the "backcountry skiing" community still has access via earned turns. What is done is done and people are going to ski that chute and there really isn't much they can do about it. One season of limiting access isn't going to help much when it gets trashed the season after this. Education and partnership would be a much better approach than what they decided to do, IMHO.

 

[ccskier]

Are they going to just extend the fence that is already there? As others have said, it is just going to attract more cowboys out there. This weekends lost girl will be a regular occurence.

 

[David Metsky]

Are they going to just extend the fence that is already there? As others have said, it is just going to attract more cowboys out there. This weekends lost girl will be a regular occurence.

I disagree - the blocked off access will deter 90% of the people who would otherwise go over there. The remaining 10% will find a way, but hopefully not from the tram. Those folks are allowed over there, this policy isn't about people who skin or hike there. The fence already covers the saddle pretty well, they'll just close the gate and post it "no go".

I don't think this will attract more people, this isn't going to advertise it any more then having an open gate with tracks. What it will do is make it much more difficult for anyone without free heels from getting over there.

 

[drjeff]

You just worry that for some people telling them that they CAN'T go will just make them want to go more. And more often than not, it's those folks that will either get into trouble because they shouldn't have been there in the 1st place and/or really screw things up for those that have a clue and an understanding about the complexities of the alpine environment and its ecosystem.

It's almost the law of supply and demand that you have here. You limit the supply and you'll increase the demand

 

[David Metsky]

It's almost the law of supply and demand that you have here. You limit the supply and you'll increase the demand

True, but they've also increased the cost (physical effort needed to get there). If people are willing to pay the cost they are more then welcome to ski it. I'm confident it will be self-limiting. I do worry about people trying to get discounts (climbing/breaking the fence) however.

 

[trycash2]

Ok so for thoose of us who have only used the gate what are the other options? Hike up from 242?? What's the best route??

Man this SUCKS (*#@(*!@#(%*!!

 

[JimG.]

I disagree - the blocked off access will deter 90% of the people who would otherwise go over there. The remaining 10% will find a way, but hopefully not from the tram. Those folks are allowed over there, this policy isn't about people who skin or hike there. The fence already covers the saddle pretty well, they'll just close the gate and post it "no go".

I don't think this will attract more people, this isn't going to advertise it any more then having an open gate with tracks. What it will do is make it much more difficult for anyone without free heels from getting over there.

I agree...90% of those who would go there are probably not motivated enough to skin up from 242. It'll make the experience better for those willing to break a sweat.

This rule applies to fishing also...I've pulled up to parking areas on some of my favorite trout streams and found shoulder to shoulder fishermen at the convenient pools. A 2-3 mile hike downstream results in empty fishing holes and abundant undisturbed fish.

 

[David Metsky]

Ok so for thoose of us who have only used the gate what are the other options? Hike up from 242?? What's the best route??

There's a small parking area on 242, presumably where you've come out in the past. You'll need to skin or snowshoe up; postholing is not feasible. A track will form over the winter, but there's more then one destination back there so it pays to be handy with a map and compass. Figure at least 2+ hours of climbing before you get to the base of the steepest areas. Getting the chutes from the ridge won't be easy; I wouldn't even suggest trying to get access to them from this route.

It's an all day trip if you want to get a few runs. Tele or AT gear is nicer then snowshoes or a splitboard, IMO, simply for flotation and sidehill climbing. Pack everything you'll need for the day, including lots of water, extra food, extra clothing, emergency gear, etc.

 

[mergs]

I read about this cutting in Backcountry mag last month. So this is not a huge shock to me (national magazine mentions it, must be a real contentious issue). I deal with illegal trail building down here in NJ (in my role as an IMBA rep) and I totally see the point of the landowners and Jay Peak. We have parks thinking about closing out mountain biking because of it, and I can see their point. The people that go into public or private lands and do whatever they wish (such as cutting trees) only ruin it for the rest of us. A little thinning here and there, it happens at every resort I know of, and it probably goes mostly unnoticed in most cases. But based on the story I read, it made it sound like the cutting that went on back there was way past "a little thinning" straight to "over the top noticeable cutting".

Big Jay has become a bit of a superhighway so closing easy access from the tram should limit a lot of traffic. Is that a bad thing? For the folks like me that might access it from the tram (if its the path of least resistance) it is. But for those that skin from the road and earn the turn, its a windfall... it will just mean that those who skin it will reap more rewards in the form of more powder, longer. Time to wax the skins and earn it.

 

[VTpowder]

dam straight man, get out there and skin your balls off.
its a real nut buster of a hike, for those who have done it before they already know this. if there is anyway to limit or stop the hiking from the hill, i don't think there will be too many who make the climb up, so have at it.

 

[MichaelJ]

Any idea how this will affect hiking? I need to climb Jay and Big Jay as my #'s 99 and 100 of the New England Hundred Highest, and if there's a fence in between them this summer I'm going to be pretty ticked.

 

[riverc0il]

Any idea how this will affect hiking? I need to climb Jay and Big Jay as my #'s 99 and 100 of the New England Hundred Highest, and if there's a fence in between them this summer I'm going to be pretty ticked.

From what I understand at the meeting you may be out of luck and would have to bushwhack around the fence. It may not still be up after ski season though but it would be ironic (and fair since it should effect everyone the same, IMO) that GMC creates an eroded bush whack by throwing up the fence. This would also effect its own members and other hikers that enjoy access via the Saddle. Just hike it from 242 instead.

 

[riverc0il]

dam straight man, get out there and skin your balls off.
its a real nut buster of a hike, for those who have done it before they already know this. if there is anyway to limit or stop the hiking from the hill, i don't think there will be too many who make the climb up, so have at it.

I will definitely be skinning it a few times this year with all that pent up deep powder due to limited access. Though I still am pissed about the limited access even if that does mean better and deeper powder. Sure will suck for the person breaking trail! Definitely one time I would not want to get getting first or second tracks.

 

[David Metsky]

I suspect that the fence will indeed be there in summer as well. You'll probably need to reroute around the end of the fence to access Big Jay, or plan it as two separate trips.

 

[thetrailboss]

An article on the meeting just was posted in today's Caledonian Record. Most interesting was this quote:

Skiers and snow boarders will be able to ski in or snowshoe into the woods from Route 242 and then ski and ride down, state officials said in a statement issued Dec. 11. They will not be able to ski over to the Big Jay side from the groomed trails at Jay Peak Resort. No one will be allowed on the clear-cut area.

And:

Big Jay is the highest peak in the Green Mountains without a maintained ski trail system, and is part of the Jay State Forest, state officials said. It is the area where a skier was lost Dec. 8 and found the next day.

The article.

 

[deadheadskier]

An article on the meeting just was posted in today's Caledonian Record. Most interesting was this quote:



And:



The article.

The latter statement is definitely not true. There are probably close to a dozen peaks higher than Big Jay in the Green Mountains that do not have maintained ski terrain. Camel's Hump being the most notable