Burke submits act 250 application for new Lift

[thetrailboss]

I saw that as well. I'm guessing the graph lines are broken at 10,000 visits. That would put this year at roughly 42,000 visits. 2002-03 was just over 50,000.

In comparison, according to their website, Okemo did 480,000 visits in 1994-95.

I would guess more like 20k per line (interesting that they don't give the numbers!). I say that because IIRC I have heard that they do about 75-100k per year and most years just below 100k. I could be wrong....

Remember that Magic was doing about 16k in 2008-2009 and that was almost nothing.

 

[from_the_NEK]

I would guess more like 20k per line (interesting that they don't give the numbers!). I say that because IIRC I have heard that they do about 75-100k per year and most years just below 100k. I could be wrong....

Remember that Magic was doing about 16k in 2008-2009 and that was almost nothing.

Not giving the breakdown leads to crappy speculation

A 20K breakdown would make me feel a bit better about their finances. :razz: Roughly 1/6 of Okemo's skier visits sounds about right.

 

[kingdom-tele]

It's been done and it hurts :grin:

I know. 1x a year it works out that we ski with a few of those crazy people, good for 4 laps and I have to start waving my white flag. fortunately it leaves us with 7 hours of relaxing ski time

wonder what the record will be with a HSQ going in

should be an interesting lift line run at least, there are some nice ledges through skiers left on doug's

maybe they can build a "bar perch" on the end of mid lodge to pass beers to chairlift patrons

Mt biking should be interesting with them stringing lift cables and blowing up the mountain

 

[roark]

maybe they can build a "bar perch" on the end of mid lodge to pass beers to chairlift patrons

But that's the best part of a slow chair vs a HS... time to enjoy a beverage! :beer:

 

[thetrailboss]

maybe they can build a "bar perch" on the end of mid lodge to pass beers to chairlift patrons

I was going to suggest that they have a ski through portion of the bar.

 

[from_the_NEK]

But that's the best part of a slow chair vs a HS... time to enjoy a beverage! :beer:

Chug. chug. chug!

I was going to suggest that they have a ski through portion of the bar.

That would help with having to ski around the lodge :beer:

 

[from_the_NEK]

I know. 1x a year it works out that we ski with a few of those crazy people, good for 4 laps and I have to start waving my white flag. fortunately it leaves us with 7 hours of relaxing ski time

wonder what the record will be with a HSQ going in

should be an interesting lift line run at least, there are some nice ledges through skiers left on doug's

maybe they can build a "bar perch" on the end of mid lodge to pass beers to chairlift patrons

Mt biking should be interesting with them stringing lift cables and blowing up the mountain

I did the 25 run thing once back when I had a pass on a icy groomer day. 13 minutes up, 2.5 - 3 down, with a few breaks thrown in.

The lift line should be fun and hopefully narrow. It looks a bit wider above the lowest Toll Road crossing, then it looks to be pretty narrow the rest of the way down.

Yeah, the blasting is probably going to have an limited affect on mtn biking on the upper mtn. However, I don't see that they would need to do a lot of blasting. But in the long run it could open up lift served biking to the summit.

 

[skiatomic]

I would guess more like 20k per line (interesting that they don't give the numbers!). I say that because IIRC I have heard that they do about 75-100k per year and most years just below 100k. I could be wrong....

Remember that Magic was doing about 16k in 2008-2009 and that was almost nothing.

20k per line on the chart seems a bit more feasible, especially dropping that kind of dough on this type of upgrade.

...they better sell some condos to support this puppy.

Might be a reaction to Jay's grand plans.

 

[from_the_NEK]

Might be a reaction to Jay's grand plans.

No, at least not specifically Jay. A HSQ to the summit of Burke has been on one drawing board or another for a LONG time. Before any of Jay's big plans were a twinkle in Bill's eye. Things just move a bit slower without all that EB-5 money.
But there is some truth to needing to upgrade to stay in the game.

 

[riverc0il]

But there is some truth to needing to upgrade to get in the game.

Fixed it for you.

One interesting item on the plans is the proposed cut back trail from East Bowl to the new HSQ which is lower than the current traverse back. Check out the topo lines on that proposed trail I am not sure there is a bigger double fall line trail in existence any where, especially a traverse trail. That is just whacked. I understand the need for condo access and for trail access from all directions. But the current Mi-Burke parking lot should be plenty low enough. You don't need low East Bowl access if they plan on putting a lift up the East Bowl, most folks are just going to take the lift up to get back to the base or mid-Burke rather than traverse (even without an uphill). Perhaps more expensive but it certainly would make more sense to have a short condo lift to shuttle folks up.

On the flip side, there aren't many major resorts with HSQs at the base of all their major condo pods and this setup will mean Burke will have two HSQs servicing slopeside real estate.

The only question remains, if it is built, will they come?

 

[kingdom-tele]

The only question remains, if it is built, will they come?

doubtful.

I'm sure it will enhance skier numbers and that is great for burke. but lets face it, burke isn't on the same radar as people being "raised jay" or skiing above treeline chutes at stowe, or back bowls at smuggs, etc - people who ski based on magazine pictures and marketing hooplah will continue to drive by. god knows side slipping pumphouse chute at J sure sounds a lot cooler at the bar later than skiing untracked knee deep pow down a moderate angle trail at 3:30

 

[deadheadskier]

From what I saw, Burke makes up for lack of steeps with plenty of significant cliffs to huck if 'extreme' is your thing.

 

[riverc0il]

From what I saw, Burke makes up for lack of steeps with plenty of significant cliffs to huck if 'extreme' is your thing.

Not really, there are some but not many. I am the type of skier kingdom-tele describes in action if not in spirit (i.e. minus the side slipping and bragging in the bar bits). I drive past Burke all the time because they don't have technical terrain that the Spine of the Greens offers. But I also drive past because they don't get as much snow. But I love the place and get there as often as possible. But if you want more technically orientated terrain, nothing at Burke compares to the ridges at Mansfield or Jay or the more techy stuff at Smuggs and Mad River. I love all that NoVT has to offer and spread my love around. There is a TON to love about Burke but extreme is not one of those things. And that is okay.

 

[troy]

The more I think about how low they are putting the lift base, the less I like it over having it where the parking lot is.

Pros:
1. Better access for a few condos
2. Better access from parking (the former overflow lots)
100 more feet of vertical from this lift. 3190 - 1570 = 1610 vert (according to contours on the site plan)

Cons:
1. Longer run out from all trails.
2. It is going to take a while to make enough snow to cover that field (Snow making power that would be better used elsewhere).
3. In the spring time that field gets baked in the sun and it is going to be hard to keep the lift open after a few hot sunny days (good reason to keep the Willoughby in running condition)
4. There are going to be a lot of bottlenecks around the mid lodge (if the lift terminal were in the old parking lot the speeds of people skiing around the lodge would probably be lower).
5. Now the lift ride will be 15 seconds longer :razz:

will it be low enough so there wont be no more run-off from east bowl? and more importantly does your boss know you post on the internet all day?

 

[deadheadskier]

Not really, there are some but not many. I am the type of skier kingdom-tele describes in action if not in spirit (i.e. minus the side slipping and bragging in the bar bits). I drive past Burke all the time because they don't have technical terrain that the Spine of the Greens offers. But I also drive past because they don't get as much snow. But I love the place and get there as often as possible. But if you want more technically orientated terrain, nothing at Burke compares to the ridges at Mansfield or Jay or the more techy stuff at Smuggs and Mad River. I love all that NoVT has to offer and spread my love around. There is a TON to love about Burke but extreme is not one of those things. And that is okay.

Fair enough

Mind you I've only skied the marked stuff. I saw a few 10ish footers and one that looked to be near 20 right in the marked glades. You don't really see on map stuff like that on Mansfield or Jay. Off map? sure and much bigger if you want it.

Mansfield range definitely has the far more technical terrain. There's good reason FIS, Meatheads, etc, have so much footage from in there. It's definitely the reason Mt. Mansfield is my favorite place to ski in the east.

However, I also think I'm just getting older and much more mellow these days. :lol:. Past couple of seasons I've enjoyed the low angle stuff as much as I do more technical terrain. Think perhaps its that I've pushed my limits plenty throughout my ski 'career'. Unlike a decade ago, I don't feel like I need to nail a steep technical chute every time out in order to have fun.

 

[riverc0il]

There are a few good sized cliffs in and around the lower glades the dump out onto East Bowl traverse. Just not a huge amount. And nothing excessively challenging else where on the mountain. Though there are a few rather tight nasty tree lines that can be a bear in poor conditions.

 

[UVSHTSTRM]

Burkes Newest Old Lift?

I saw the Burke Act 250 thread and remembered I heard this on the radio today, the Valley News out of Lebanon had the printed version. I know the potential for this happening has been discussed for sometime, but this is the latest.

http://www.vnews.com/04212011/7763297.htm

 

[kingdom-tele]

Not really, there are some but not many. I am the type of skier kingdom-tele describes in action if not in spirit (i.e. minus the side slipping and bragging in the bar bits). I drive past Burke all the time because they don't have technical terrain that the Spine of the Greens offers. But I also drive past because they don't get as much snow. But I love the place and get there as often as possible. But if you want more technically orientated terrain, nothing at Burke compares to the ridges at Mansfield or Jay or the more techy stuff at Smuggs and Mad River. I love all that NoVT has to offer and spread my love around. There is a TON to love about Burke but extreme is not one of those things. And that is okay.

Riv - I was saying more in jest. spending anythime in the tram at J will give you access to some of the most hardcore skiers in the east per their report:roll:

what burke lacks in pitch, exposure, powder, edginess, it makes up for in simpleness (is that a word?), solitude, and snow preservation. if you like those things you'll like burke. if your going there expecting 20 jump turns down a 8' chute over and over again you probably won't

I just go because its one of the last places I can still drink beer from a plastic cup

 

[from_the_NEK]

I saw the Burke Act 250 thread and remembered I heard this on the radio today, the Valley News out of Lebanon had the printed version. I know the potential for this happening has been discussed for sometime, but this is the latest.

http://www.vnews.com/04212011/7763297.htm

It is a sad story at Ascutney :sad:. The crazy thing is Burke barely avoided the same liquidation fate 11 years ago.

 

[from_the_NEK]

One interesting item on the plans is the proposed cut back trail from East Bowl to the new HSQ which is lower than the current traverse back. Check out the topo lines on that proposed trail I am not sure there is a bigger double fall line trail in existence any where, especially a traverse trail. That is just whacked. I understand the need for condo access and for trail access from all directions. But the current Mi-Burke parking lot should be plenty low enough. You don't need low East Bowl access if they plan on putting a lift up the East Bowl, most folks are just going to take the lift up to get back to the base or mid-Burke rather than traverse (even without an uphill). Perhaps more expensive but it certainly would make more sense to have a short condo lift to shuttle folks up.

The only question remains, if it is built, will they come?

That strange double falline trail is in the master plan as the connector from the top of the Owl Peak lift pod that was planned to serve the main resort complex that was to be built where the Old Cutter Inn is located on Pinkham Rd. See the trail marked "C7" in this map.

http://www.anr.state.vt.us/Imaging/Planning/7C0206-13/Burke.Act250app.Exhibit1E(d)-1.PDF

I don't think we'll see of of that roll out anytime soon :smile: