Cannon lift out to bid

[deadheadskier]

Its actually 2 lifts and technically could be done in one with the tram with one long ass traverse.We usually lap it in about 40 minutes.

you traverse straight over to Peabody? I thought the more common method was to catch Tuckerbrook first. that's the way I went anyhow.

I certainly don't lay claim to being a Mittersill expert, but I do get people's concerns with adding a lift.

 

[SIKSKIER]

you traverse straight over to Peabody? I thought the more common method was to catch Tuckerbrook first. that's the way I went anyhow.

I certainly don't lay claim to being a Mittersill expert, but I do get people's concerns with adding a lift.

Yes.You don't need to ride that useless Tuckerbrook chair.
I have mixed feelings about with adding a lift.Being a 35 year passholder I have seen and felt a lot of kinship with that mountain.It's always been "home" to me.I have a place at Mittersill across from the main building that I've been in for 15 years so I kind of would like to see Mittersill reopened for obvious reasons.That said,I have no problem driving the 30 seconds to the Tuckerbrook lift all booted up and step out of the car onto the trail.I love the slack country aspect of semi earning your turns and all the secret stashes we have all around Mt Jackson.But I think the old double lift in the same footprint was a pretty good compromise.Many older locals were really pushing puting a surface lift over the saddle and I was definately not in that camp.I can live with whatever was or was not going to change.

 

[Puck it]

The amount of traffic will go way up. And two lifts is right. You can by pass Tuckerbrook if cut right soon enough.

 

[riverc0il]

Personally, I always skied down to the bottom of TB Quad and took three lifts or I skied to the bottom and walked and then you had to take three lifts. Coyote Crossing often is not groomed (unless they started grooming it, haven't been to Cannon much recently) or is a bit of a slog even when it is. Moot point now, regardless. I will miss hiking back. It will be a different experience for sure... not quite as much of a hardcore aspect any more. But with change come opportunities... so in some ways, I really don't mind at all.

 

[Johnskiismore]

Yeah, I have done away with my negative feelings, hurry up and build the lift get it over and done with!

 

[Puck it]

There are plenty of other spots to ski that the yahoos do not know about.

 

[bobbutts]

Unfortunately, the state will likely spend in excess of $1M for this chair, whereas had it been done privately, the whole job could have been done for a few hundred thousand.

Regardless, the economics of it make very little sense to me. I think this money could have been spent much more wisely.

Why so expensive for the state vs Private? Can you elaborate?

 

[billski]

Looks like it might happen this summer!

http://planroom.infiniteimaging.com/details.php?job=1109

Boo! hiss! Looks like the deadline passed, so they took it down.

 

[threecy]

Why so expensive for the state vs Private? Can you elaborate?

Most privately owned ski areas would be on the market for a used double and refurbish it, which would be just as good as an OEM fixed grip double.

 

[Telemechanic]

Most privately owned ski areas would be on the market for a used double and refurbish it, which would be just as good as an OEM fixed grip double.

I think many smaller ski areas like to buy used lifts but most of the larger ski areas in Northern NH install new lifts. Cannon has tried to save money in the past taking old lifts from Sunapee but they've also installed two new lifts in 11 years. Most years there aren't many used doubles on the market. I don't think Cannon is willing to wait for one that fit their needs. They probably feel bringing lift service to Mittersill this year is necessary to maintain or expand their share of the I-93 skiers. Used lifts when refurbished are good but not as good as a new lift.

 

[bigbob]

DOPPLEMAYR CTEC, INC got it!

http://www.nh.gov/dot/org/administration/finance/bids/bidresults/2010/index.htm
Scroll down toward the bottom and click on Franconia.

 

[riverc0il]

I think many smaller ski areas like to buy used lifts but most of the larger ski areas in Northern NH install new lifts. Cannon has tried to save money in the past taking old lifts from Sunapee but they've also installed two new lifts in 11 years. Most years there aren't many used doubles on the market. I don't think Cannon is willing to wait for one that fit their needs. They probably feel bringing lift service to Mittersill this year is necessary to maintain or expand their share of the I-93 skiers. Used lifts when refurbished are good but not as good as a new lift.

Good call here. I am trying to think of the last major ski area to install a used lift in a major trail pod (i.e. non-transfer lift). Saddleback is private and they went new. Loon replaced their North Peak with a new HSQ. SR got a new chondola. Killington's HSQ was new. Burke, new HSQ. Can't think of any major mountain with 2k-ish vert in recent memory that installed a used lift except perhaps as a minor, transfer, or beginner lift.

 

[threecy]

Most privately owned ski areas would be on the market for a used double and refurbish it, which would be just as good as an OEM fixed grip double.

I think many smaller ski areas like to buy used lifts but most of the larger ski areas in Northern NH install new lifts. Cannon has tried to save money in the past taking old lifts from Sunapee but they've also installed two new lifts in 11 years. Most years there aren't many used doubles on the market. I don't think Cannon is willing to wait for one that fit their needs. They probably feel bringing lift service to Mittersill this year is necessary to maintain or expand their share of the I-93 skiers. Used lifts when refurbished are good but not as good as a new lift.

Please note that my comment was in regard to double chairs. Most installs in northern NH in recent years have been triples and quads - it's very difficult to find a triple or quad chair on the used market.

While many double chairs have been installed in New England this past decade, only 1 was brand new (Sugarbush).

A good, used double chair will function just as well as a new double chair when installed. There are plenty of examples of used double chairs operating without a hitch for 30 years after their used install date. Certainly that's a much better ROI with an install cost of perhaps 25% and same maintenance costs.

Since the Mittersill project was first disclosed, quite a few used double chairs have passed through the market that would have worked. However, since this was a bidded out to OEMs with essentially no lead time (in other words, since there apparently wasn't any effort to procure a used lift and perhaps store it for a year or two), OEM is the only way they'll go. This added expense comes out of the pockets of NH taxpayers.

 

[threecy]

Good call here. I am trying to think of the last major ski area to install a used lift in a major trail pod (i.e. non-transfer lift). Saddleback is private and they went new. Loon replaced their North Peak with a new HSQ. SR got a new chondola. Killington's HSQ was new. Burke, new HSQ. Can't think of any major mountain with 2k-ish vert in recent memory that installed a used lift except perhaps as a minor, transfer, or beginner lift.

I don't think 2K vertical is particularly relevant here, since we're talking about a low-capacity lift, circa 1K vertical. Quite a few circa 1K vertical fixed grip lifts have been installed used in New England this year. The most recent example is (will be) the new main lift at Shawnee Peak, which was purchased used from Loon almost half a decade ago and has been in storage since then. That lift, when installed, will spin probably twice as many hours as compared to the Mittersill double.

 

[threecy]

DOPPLEMAYR CTEC, INC got it!

http://www.nh.gov/dot/org/administration/finance/bids/bidresults/2010/index.htm
Scroll down toward the bottom and click on Franconia.

$2,631,490.00 for a double chairlift - wow!

I'll make a guess that Shawnee Peak's "new" summit triple chairlift (similar dimensions to the Mittersill chair) will cost maybe 20% of that number.

 

[bigbob]

This added expense comes out of the pockets of NH taxpayers.

I do not believe this is true. The extra money from the Suneppe sp? lease payment and lift ticket revenue will pay for the bond.

 

[EPB]

$2,631,490.00 for a double chairlift - wow!

I'll make a guess that Shawnee Peak's "new" summit triple chairlift (similar dimensions to the Mittersill chair) will cost maybe 20% of that number.

I'd be willing to bet that $2 + million dollar figure includes installation, which isn't cheap. Shawnee will likely incur a hefty sum on top of the price they payed from Loon for the lift.

You could also say that Shawnee's triple purchase is irrelevant because the trails are not allowed to be widened at Mittersill beyond their original footprint. This includes the lift line; a double is probably the only option. I believe someone already mentioned earlier that doubles that cover similar lengths and vertical as the Mittersill line are difficult to find, if at all. It might not be prudent to sit around and wait for an acceptable double to be removed from another area. It could take many years.

 

[billski]

BMM made a comment several months back that the engineering is largest cost in a lift installation.

 

[threecy]

This added expense comes out of the pockets of NH taxpayers.

I do not believe this is true. The extra money from the Suneppe sp? lease payment and lift ticket revenue will pay for the bond.

Cannon and Sunapee are owned by New Hampshire. The revenues received from the Sunapee lease belong to the people of New Hampshire.

I'd be willing to bet that $2 + million dollar figure includes installation, which isn't cheap. Shawnee will likely incur a hefty sum on top of the price they payed from Loon for the lift.

The $2.6M includes installation. My estimate also includes install (via crane, which is not unreasonable). Shawnee likely paid Loon somewhere in the low 6 digits for the lift itself. They'd then have to pay for transport (relatively cheap, vs. transporting from the other side of the country), engineering, take-down of their existing lift, and install. With the exception of engineering, much of this work could be done by their own employees, along with some qualified contractors (as an example, Crotched and Berkshire East shared an install crew half a decade ago, with their own employees doing the balance of the work).

You could also say that Shawnee's triple purchase is irrelevant because the trails are not allowed to be widened at Mittersill beyond their original footprint. This includes the lift line; a double is probably the only option. I believe someone already mentioned earlier that doubles that cover similar lengths and vertical as the Mittersill line are difficult to find, if at all. It might not be prudent to sit around and wait for an acceptable double to be removed from another area. It could take many years.

Note that I referred to the state bid process as part of the issue. Shawnee purchased the triple years ago when it came on the market, then installed it when they felt it was time. Double chairlifts have passed through the used market since Mittersill was first announced - had this been a privately owned ski area, they would have likely jumped on one of those and stored it. This is a very common practice.

 

[EPB]

Double chairlifts have passed through the used market since Mittersill was first announced - had this been a privately owned ski area, they would have likely jumped on one of those and stored it. This is a very common practice.

Examples would be nice.... But hey, maybe its not too late for Cannon to inquire about Attitash's Hall double built in the late 60's. They could paint it back red and it would be just like the original Mittersill (and Attitash) one.