• Welcome to AlpineZone, the largest online community of skiers and snowboarders in the Northeast!

    You may have to REGISTER before you can post. Registering is FREE, gets rid of the majority of advertisements, and lets you participate in giveaways and other AlpineZone events!

COVID concerns in the Northeast

da-bum

Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2017
Messages
89
Points
8
Yes and no.

Most of the Asian countries didn't have a full lockdown like in China. In fact, most countries in Asia kept their schools open.

I wonder if that's where Sweden got the same idea. Sweden's population are more conforming than the rest of Europe. It's quite possible the "other Nordic countries" could have work too.

But Italy? France? Never mind in the US, when you have the highest office holder calling to "pack the churches by Easter". Did Sweden pack their churches on Easter???

From the article: "These observations are consistent with a model where the severity of the risk perceived by individuals was a stronger driver of anti-contagion behaviors than the specific nature of the NPIs"

Translation, those country whose population takes the virus seriously behave better. And the case number shows that.

p.s.
Now I'm beginning to think maybe the Vermonters got it right. The people there took it seriously. So they kept a low case number even when their neighbors' numbers are going up. Maybe I should move up my trip there now. Low case number, snow, skiing, what's not to like?

I didn't want to get into the details of how much action each of the Asian countries took because each one had different reactions, but the main thing is they all took serious actions before it got to the point where lockdown was thought of as the only solution. China, and especiall Wuhan did that because the outbreak got so bad, that was the only option. Their lockdown was literally nobody could go out.

Singapore was successful initially, except they forgot that their migrant workers were people too, which lead to an uncontrollable outbreak, thus forcing them to lock down the dorms.

As for Sweden, I think their chief epidemiologist is more of an ideologue than data scientist. His 'guesstimate' that 30% of Swedes should have immunity, then being surprised that an subsequent antibody study shows it being much lower, then goes on that based on that study, Swedes should achieve herd immunity very soon. It just goes against all science and statistics. His constant justification of no-mask based on at best cherry picked studies, and some epidemiologists indicating his lack of understanding of R number and using terms like community spread vs transmission as a layperson would. I was agnostic toward Sweden and its ways, but never saw any data that backed up whatever they said.

Largely due to being misled by China early on in the pandemic. Perhaps if outside medical officials were allowed in early on, we might have actually seen what was going on and taken a different approach. I'd be willing to bet, you wouldn't see people like Fauci saying it's nothing to worry about and won't be a problem for us. And it could have lead to a much more reasonable and more effective approach than the one we took.

We were already in a lockdown or stay at home order when Italy was going through the peak of their infection curve, and Italy was widely cited as a reason for the measures we took, and what happened in italy never really happened here (perhaps maybe in NYC early on, but not to the extent it happened in Italy)
You are painting China with a broad brush as if the municipal, regional and national government are the same. There were alot of inter-regional conflict and assertion of power going on, not unlike the Trump/Cuomo/Deblasio tussle that was going on. If foreign media covered the US with such obtuse angle, then all you will hear will be the negatives of each governmental office that would make for an extremely sinister, incompetent or irrational story-line.

Trump shut down the US's CDC partnership with China's CDC (an organization that the US trained), effectively blinding us to what is going on there.

Fauci listens mainly looks at the data, along with WHO, which is a international agency that is extremely cautious on its pronouncements and requires extensive evidence before announcing them.

You don't have to look at a country go over the peak to take notice. They were already having heavy hospitalization in early March. DeBlasio was still talking about St
Patrick's day parade going ahead while everbody else were cancelling theirs, including in St Patty's homeand..Ireland. At the exponential rate the virus was spreading, every day of inaction makes a tremendous difference down the road.
 

abc

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
4,384
Points
63
Location
Lower Hudson Valley
the main thing is they all took serious actions before it got to the point where lockdown was thought of as the only solution. China, and especiall Wuhan did that because the outbreak got so bad, that was the only option. Their lockdown was literally nobody could go out.
You're quite right on that.

In fact, Wuhan was a perfect illustration of "what NOT to do"! The communist party boss clamp down on the doctors who sounded the alarm (only among doctors) to prevent ANY kind of action to be taken. The delay from that "information quarantine" put them on the path that full lockdown was the only destination.

The west have a lot more transparency. So we actually got to see how the deniers resisting the many sensible restrictions early on. And politicians dilly dallying about not willing to make tough decisions like the South Koreans and Singaporeans.

While the cause for the delay were different, the results are exactly the same. No early action == full lockdown a week or two later!

All that study paper had "proved" was there ARE better ways to reduce the spread of the virus! If only it had been done at the right time! (that is, had the paper included countries like Singapore/Taiwan etc, it would have been quite clear).
 

abc

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
4,384
Points
63
Location
Lower Hudson Valley
You folks really need to get out and ski.
In case you haven't noticed, there's only very thin man made snow on most mountains!

Yes, I prefer to waste my time talk about Covid than to waste it scrape ice mixed with dirt! (and yes, I went out last week, the bottom of my ski shows :( )

Let's hope this weekend's storm open up some terrain. There might be less post here and more on the trip report section.
 

skiur

Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2012
Messages
852
Points
18
In case you haven't noticed, there's only very thin man made snow on most mountains!

Yes, I prefer to waste my time talk about Covid than to waste it scrape ice mixed with dirt! (and yes, I went out last week, the bottom of my ski shows :( )

Let's hope this weekend's storm open up some terrain. There might be less post here and more on the trip report section.

Killington has tons of skiing available, nats are getting kinda boney but the snowmaking trails have plenty of coverage. My season pass cost a grand and it was well worth it the way this year has gone. I feel bad for epic pass holders.
 

gittist

Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2019
Messages
56
Points
8
In case you haven't noticed, there's only very thin man made snow on most mountains!

Yes, I prefer to waste my time talk about Covid than to waste it scrape ice mixed with dirt! (and yes, I went out last week, the bottom of my ski shows :( )

Let's hope this weekend's storm open up some terrain. There might be less post here and more on the trip report section.
Agreed. I just returned after skiing for 3 days. It was spring skiing, silky smooth (yes but rare) to nickel and quarter sized rocks across the trails, and brown snow. Since it was a Vail resort there were a few closed trails with mounds of snow and then towards the middle of the week it seemed like they were closing what good trails they had to force us onto the crappy trails.

Between the weather and COVID skiing ain't too much fun this year. I wonder how many will go to the slopes to ski when the temperature drops to zero and the wind is blowing but you can't go in the lodge? The locals can ski until they're cold then go home but for those of us that have to drive some distance, we won't do it.

So I'll probably only get 3 days out of my season pass this year :-(

Don't eat yellow snow (seems to more of it this year for some reason)!
 

JimG.

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Oct 29, 2004
Messages
11,190
Points
63
Location
Hopewell Jct., NY
In case you haven't noticed, there's only very thin man made snow on most mountains!

Yes, I prefer to waste my time talk about Covid than to waste it scrape ice mixed with dirt! (and yes, I went out last week, the bottom of my ski shows :( )

Let's hope this weekend's storm open up some terrain. There might be less post here and more on the trip report section.
Stop being so fussy! Hard to believe anyone would rather discuss this crap than ski, I don't care if it's on one trail of ice cubes.
 

JimG.

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Oct 29, 2004
Messages
11,190
Points
63
Location
Hopewell Jct., NY
Agreed. I just returned after skiing for 3 days. It was spring skiing, silky smooth (yes but rare) to nickel and quarter sized rocks across the trails, and brown snow. Since it was a Vail resort there were a few closed trails with mounds of snow and then towards the middle of the week it seemed like they were closing what good trails they had to force us onto the crappy trails.

Between the weather and COVID skiing ain't too much fun this year. I wonder how many will go to the slopes to ski when the temperature drops to zero and the wind is blowing but you can't go in the lodge? The locals can ski until they're cold then go home but for those of us that have to drive some distance, we won't do it.

So I'll probably only get 3 days out of my season pass this year :-(

Don't eat yellow snow (seems to more of it this year for some reason)!
Vote with your dollars next year and DON'T support Vail!!
 

abc

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
4,384
Points
63
Location
Lower Hudson Valley
Stop being so fussy! Hard to believe anyone would rather discuss this crap than ski, I don't care if it's on one trail of ice cubes.
You have as much right to enjoy "one trail of ice cubes" as I have to not waste my time on it.

I'm not the least bit ashamed to be "fussy"
 
Last edited:

abc

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
4,384
Points
63
Location
Lower Hudson Valley
Do you like bridges? I have a nifty one in Brooklyn I'd like to unload; good price too.
Which part do you find untrue? The "their lockdown was absolute and rigidly enforced" part, or the "
case level down to practically zero and now life goes on there" part?
 

VTKilarney

Active member
Joined
Feb 5, 2014
Messages
5,410
Points
38
Location
VT NEK
A peer reviewed study has shown that lockdowns have “no clear, significant beneficial effect”. Pardon the source for the article. Other than Fox News, I couldn't find any coverage from the mainstream media when I Googled it.

The actual paper can be found here:


I seem to recall some people saying that we need to, "listen to the science."
 
Top