Day tickets going through the roof in Vermont

[Not Sure]

Exactly! This is the dawning of the age of Liftopia! The age of Liftopia! Liftooopiaaaa! Liftopeeeeaaaaah!

Haha Aquarius ....Is Liftopia is going to win back the places they stuck? ....No Way . They'll sell tickets on their own sites .

 

[Kingslug20]

How old are you slug? I would guess mid fifty’s by your posts but dont know for sure. That’s a nice age for retirement.

57..a little early but I can't stand NYC anymore...and my union is pretty much mostly here..who knows..might come out of retirement at some point up in VT ..but for now..need a break.

 

[Smellytele]

Haha Aquarius ....Is Liftopia is going to win back the places they stuck? ....No Way . They'll sell tickets on their own sites .

I thought Abubob was a Scorpio. ???

 

[Abubob]

I thought Abubob was a Scorpio. ???

You’re thinking of Serpico but I really look more like Andy Garcia.

 

[Zand]

Is the Ski VT 4 pack not a decent compromise? $194 for 4 tickets is a pretty decent deal (and even the evil empire resorts are still included!). Expected to go on sale sometime in early November

I think the Fox 44 passes are still a thing too, although last year they didnt do them so we'll see if Covid killed that pass permanently or not. Back in 2019 they lowered the price to like $85 or something crazy like that in mid March.

A lot of the Fox 44 resorts are on the Indy so that might also be a problem for it continuing.

 

[machski]

They're using a western pricing model for the east- but out west conditions are pretty predictable while in the east rain happens, alot- you think customers are gonna pay those prices to ski in the rain here? keep dreaming, nobody likes a cold wet ass
These areas better be praying for great conditions cuz if not folks will be driving right past to non greedy areas
But maybe thats their plan- less crowds for dummies willing to pay thru the nose- obviously they couldnt care less about the rest of us

BINGO! But then again, this is WHY Eastern resorts have rapidly tilted tot he Western model to drive prepurchased lower cost pass and prepurchased ticket packs or even unrestricted single day tickets ahead of the season. The old model of expensive passes but reasonable walk up ticket prices caused too many huge revenvue swings depending on the weather each season. So you planned to install that new shiny HSQ next season but the lead up season had a lot of R storms on the weekends with Powder mostly midweek? Well, that sucks because your revenues and thus profit to reivest in the offseason just took a major beating. So, do you push ahead with that lift and hope you can swing added financing because of the revenue gap? Do you push it off, potentially paying a lift manufactureer for that depending on your contract and negative press that might generate? These were the old decisions.

Now, the revenue stream stays more consistent (at least on the ticket side of the equation). Resorts can better plan for future outlays for new/upgraded assets on the hill. One bad season doesn't necessarily send them scrambling to regroup and realign. I think you can see that most clearly from Vail and Boyne's lift upgrade plans already announced across their portfolios. This after a chopped season from Covid in 19-20 and a different season in 20-21. The only operator to not reinstate all their planned pre covid lift upgrades is Alterra (no word on Mammoth's two quads to 6's for example, or Tremblant's expansion plans. All seem still tabled while they press ahead with the Alpine-Olympic interconnect and the Steamboat transformation). I'm sure its a matter of time before Alterra announces more plans, but if not, I will take that to mean their pricing strategy for Ikon vs Epic's lowered may not have been fruitful.

 

[Ski2LiveLive2Ski]

How many years has it been since any of you walked up to a window and bought an un-discounted day ticket?

At least 10 years and I have only had season passes for 3 and have never paid full price for my daughters in their 8 years of skiing. Couldn't care less what the "sucker" rate is. People too rich to bother spending 5 minutes googling for a deal subsidize it for the rest of us, which is fine.

 

[raisingarizona]

At least 10 years and I have only had season passes for 3 and have never paid full price for my daughters in their 8 years of skiing. Couldn't care less what the "sucker" rate is. People too rich to bother spending 5 minutes googling for a deal subsidize it for the rest of us, which is fine.

Those deals aren’t deals if you spend your weekends standing around in 45 minute lift lines now being…..the sucker from the city who thinks they got a deal.

 

[Ski2LiveLive2Ski]

Those deals aren’t deals if you spend your weekends standing around in 45 minute lift lines now being…..the sucker from the city who thinks they got a deal.

Since you can get better than window deal websites at a huge variety of mountains I don't think findingnbetter than window deals ever led to longer lines.

Is your point that Epic Pass places tend to have longer lines? Sure. But I guess that either makes other places less crowded or increases the amount people ski. Can't say those are bad side effects for skiers.

 

[deadheadskier]

BINGO! But then again, this is WHY Eastern resorts have rapidly tilted tot he Western model to drive prepurchased lower cost pass and prepurchased ticket packs or even unrestricted single day tickets ahead of the season. The old model of expensive passes but reasonable walk up ticket prices caused too many huge revenvue swings depending on the weather each season. So you planned to install that new shiny HSQ next season but the lead up season had a lot of R storms on the weekends with Powder mostly midweek? Well, that sucks because your revenues and thus profit to reivest in the offseason just took a major beating. So, do you push ahead with that lift and hope you can swing added financing because of the revenue gap? Do you push it off, potentially paying a lift manufactureer for that depending on your contract and negative press that might generate? These were the old decisions.

Now, the revenue stream stays more consistent (at least on the ticket side of the equation). Resorts can better plan for future outlays for new/upgraded assets on the hill. One bad season doesn't necessarily send them scrambling to regroup and realign. I think you can see that most clearly from Vail and Boyne's lift upgrade plans already announced across their portfolios. This after a chopped season from Covid in 19-20 and a different season in 20-21. The only operator to not reinstate all their planned pre covid lift upgrades is Alterra (no word on Mammoth's two quads to 6's for example, or Tremblant's expansion plans. All seem still tabled while they press ahead with the Alpine-Olympic interconnect and the Steamboat transformation). I'm sure its a matter of time before Alterra announces more plans, but if not, I will take that to mean their pricing strategy for Ikon vs Epic's lowered may not have been fruitful.

Very solid explanation of how the strategy covers maintaining a steady revenue stream in a weather volatile business to plan future short term development.

But does that strategy also promote participation growth to match those future increases in operational expenses from that development?

If it doesn't, where does that leave us when the boomers can no longer ski and the next generation can't replace the numbers?

This discussion to me isn't about how to fund shiny new things. It's about preventing more rusty things on NELSAP.

Somebody said it above, "Is skiing the new yachting?"

 

[abc]

Somebody said it above, "Is skiing the new yachting?"

While hatching is mostly a pastime for the well to do, there’re actually quite some blue collar participation too. You just don’t see them at the prime location marinas.

 

[raisingarizona]

Since you can get better than window deal websites at a huge variety of mountains I don't think findingnbetter than window deals ever led to longer lines.

Is your point that Epic Pass places tend to have longer lines? Sure. But I guess that either makes other places less crowded or increases the amount people ski. Can't say those are bad side effects for skiers.

Ya, mostly talking about the super passes. I think it’s obvious that they are beginning to lose their value.

 

[Ski2LiveLive2Ski]

Ya, mostly talking about the super passes. I think it’s obvious that they are beginning to lose their value.

Augmented my Epic Local with an Indy this year to have alternatives when lines are likely to get long. Even paying for both is a great deal compared to older models of paying for skiing.

Including my 2 years on super passes, my prior year with Blue Mt passes, and various deals I found for my kids and I, I have generally kept the cost of lift tickets for my kids and I under $20/person/day for the 8 seasons they have skies with me and am confident I will do the same for their 9th season coming up. About the price of taking them to a movie, splitting a popcorn and each getting a soda.

It is not surprising that such an exhilarating and affordable pastime is popular enough that there are some lines. At least the payoff to frustration ratio way blows aways diversions like amusement parks in the summer.

 

[boston_e]

Very solid explanation of how the strategy covers maintaining a steady revenue stream in a weather volatile business to plan future short term development.

But does that strategy also promote participation growth to match those future increases in operational expenses from that development?

If it doesn't, where does that leave us when the boomers can no longer ski and the next generation can't replace the numbers?

This discussion to me isn't about how to fund shiny new things. It's about preventing more rusty things on NELSAP.

Somebody said it above, "Is skiing the new yachting?"

Sort of to this point - do these super passes increase the actual number of skiers or just the number of skier visits? (Someone who may have previously gone 8 days on day tickets now going 20 days since it does not add cost when they are using a cheap pass adds to the lines etc but does not attract new skiers from the next generation)

 

[Kingslug20]

To me the math is simple..if a Stowe only pass used to cost 2K..and now you can get an epic for under 1K and go all over the place..how could it not attract new skiers and boarders?

 

[eatskisleep]

I think $185.20 is the walk up window rate. The pre-purchase rates are lower.

How far in advance do you need to purchase though? Not everyone wants to book a week+ in advance when weather/conditions could be questionable.

 

[boston_e]

To me the math is simple..if a Stowe only pass used to cost 2K..and now you can get an epic for under 1K and go all over the place..how could it not attract new skiers and boarders?

If you have never skied or snowboarded before are you going to lay down $1K for a season pass to try it out?

 

[boston_e]

How far in advance do you need to purchase though? Not everyone wants to book a week+ in advance when weather/conditions could be questionable.

That is the exact problem... and why i never ski anywhere off of my pass, which is a bummer when trying to connect with friends who have a different pass.

 

[deadheadskier]

To me the math is simple..if a Stowe only pass used to cost 2K..and now you can get an epic for under 1K and go all over the place..how could it not attract new skiers and boarders?

It might attract new skiers to THEIR properties, but not new people to the sport. Skiing requires a heavy initial investment. My guess is very few people just hop into the sport with a pass.

Now if Stowe offered a day pass + lesson + rentals for say $150 (still expensive), that might get more people to give the sport a try.

But for Joe flatlander who knows very little and looks at the website and sees it's gonna be $150+ rentals + lesson on top. That's likely a nonstarter. And they may not know about the affordable feeder hills.

 

[Kingslug20]

If you have never skied or snowboarded before are you going to lay down $1K for a season pass to try it out?

I'm thinking more of families. But recently I started racing a motorcycle up near Oneonta. There are only 2 tracks that you can do this on a regular basis like this..one there and one in NJ. The owner sells out season passes at 3K in a day..He said he had so many first timers after 1 day doing it ( its not competitive racing) sign up for a season pass...
so...I guess there could also be a percentage of first timers doing the same after a few times if they get hooked.