Diplomacy....with a friend. How do you say "You suck..." ?

[smootharc]

Let me explain. I've got this buddy. Good athlete. Good guy. But he just skis ugly. After years and years of turning. Wouldn't know a carved edge from a carving knife. He keeps up and stays with us, but...and I'm sorry here as I sound judgemental...he just skis ugly. He needs a lesson. Or two. Or ten.....

I skied young. Then took a break to be a HS & D1 athlete in a sport where coaches didn't like you skiing, and where you trained in winter. When I got back into skiing, I was my buddy. I skied ugly. And someone told me to get a lesson, in a mean kind of way. And I did, and I got set right "tres fast" by a hottie instructor chick who could verbalize clearly what was wrong and how to fix it. Layman's terms. (Another thread could cover why I never married her....or even asked her out - but that's under the "idiot-fraidy cat-fear of failing" class I was always seeming to fail.... :dunce: ).

Anyways, I don't want to hurt this guy's feelings....but, sheesh, shouldn't he want to make good turns ????? Perhaps not. So maybe I'll just shut up and leave him be and worry about my own turns.

 

[pepperdawg]

As long as he keeps up and you arent constantly waiting on him, then who cares how he skiis....just my .02...

 

[Talisman]

Get into a skiing converstaion with your buddy. Ask him "What do you want to accomplish next in skiing" or "What are your skiing goals". Listen to what he has to say and be ready to articulate what your skiing goals are. Then ask him "Have you ever thought about taking lessons to reach the goal faster?". You then could tell him about how lessons helped you reach the next level.

 

[thetrailboss]

Maybe refer him to a ski instructor or someone who could help...gently though

 

[Greg]

As long as he keeps up and you arent constantly waiting on him, then who cares how he skiis....just my .02...

Totally agree, 100%. If the guy's having fun, who cares how his technique is? My favorite person to ski with doesn't have the best technique, but boy do we have fun when skiing together. Perhaps it's also because he's my best friend, but I enjoy skiing with him more than just about anybody else. We're out there to have fun. I like Talisman's advice - check to see what his goals are and if he's looking to improve his technique, suggest a lesson. Better yet, suggest that you both take one together...

 

[Chute]

Have you thought of video-taping your friend? You could then play it back and ask an open-ended question like "What do you think of how you ski?" I would agree with the moderator in that you want to go easy. After all, what's your goal here? To help your friend, not hurt his feelings.

 

[hammer]

I'd like to think that we all have something about our technique that we need to work on.

Keeping that in mind, and also keeping in mind that the main objective is to have fun, I'd only bring it up if you felt that you could without getting your friend upset.

A little bit of "covert" videotaping may not hurt either...

I for one have a goal to get out and take a lesson once a season. IMO, that's not such a bad idea for most of us, even the "experts"...

 

[dmc]

Maybe he should try snowboarding... It's a lot easier then skiing..
Many of my friends who were mediocre skiers are now awesome snowboarders...
Just a thought..

Until then - lose him... Dont wait - get on the lift.. Don't waste your precious ski days on him..

 

[Greg]

I'd only bring it up if you felt that you could without getting your friend upset.

...and only if he wants the advice. Some folks don't really care that much how they look when skiing...

 

[Sky]

Lesson Advice

Tough call as stated by everyone else.

I'm a bit surprised that as an athlete...the "buddy" doesn't want to demonstrate continuous improvement...but that could just be me.

Try telling him you're planning on taking a lesson whne you next plan to ski together. Like a previous poster pointed out, we could all use an occasional "upgrade" to our talents (I'll be taking lessons again next year after a two-year hiatus from them...new gear = new motivation).

Talk up the points made here...everybody needs a tweeking occasionally.

Greg has an excellent point (should the guy opt to let you take the lesson while he free-skies)....if he's having fun and keeping up, it's your issue not his. It's nice that you want more for your friend, but maybe he has all he wants?

Good Luck regardless.

ONE LAST OPTION (from me anyway)....I bought a book two summers ago "The All Mountain Skier". Lots of folks think reading how to ski is like walking how to fly but....I loved this book. I've re-read sections of it repeatedly and kept it in the brief case up till this past spring (replaced with new reading material). I bought it @ Borders or some other chain.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/007140841X/ref=sib_dp_pt/103-4513725-8518222#reader-page

What I loved about the book was the author's approach. Build a Tool Box! All the terms, all the techniques, edging vs steering, balance, weight shift, and every aspect came with practice drills. So if the guy is an athlete and is used to "drills" as a means to improve technique...this could help. It also discusses how to approach various situations and again gives drills to practice to drive home the point (steeps, moguls, powder,). It gives approaches for intermediate and better skiers and always refers back to the Tool Box terms.

Tell him you read it and liked it...ask him if he'd like to borrow it for off-season reading.

 

[skibum1321]

If he's a good friend you can probably tell him straight up. Maybe it's just me and my friends but we rag on each other all the time and can take the jokes.

 

[smootharc]

Man....

....all of youse guys were gobbling wisdom vitamins with your oatmeal this morning. Excellent suggestions all-around. Thanks.

Now...about his mountain biking..... :wink:

 

[dmc]

Re: Man....

....all of youse guys were gobbling wisdom vitamins with your oatmeal this morning. Excellent suggestions all-around. Thanks.

Now...about his mountain biking..... :wink:

Sounds like this guy is more of a poker buddy then an outdoors buddy...

 

[bvibert]

Maybe he's good and you suck... maybe he's contemplating how to ask you this very question! Something to ponder...


:lol: J/K, and if it is true he can use the same good advice offered to you above...

 

[riverc0il]

some suggestions have advised that you both take a lesson; however, if you are on different levels you will likely need to take lessons seperately so that takes out the buddy aspect of taking a lesson but if the buddy could possibly be upset by havintg the suggestion of a lesson thrown his way, it would definitely smooth it out if you were taking one too regardless if they were done together.

could i ask what the difference in experience is? how radically different are we taking about? where do you two stand on non-groomed terrain? is it just a speed issue or is the buddy lacking serious technical skills that make skiing anything but groomers out of the question? or does he just look bad but gets down fine?

if it is just a matter of looking bad and going slow, i'd say you want to approach that subject with care. but if it is a matter of the guy needing more skills to safely nagigate terrain you guys are skiing or if the guy's limited skills are stopping you from skiing the same trails, you have a little bit more room to work with.

i think talisan has the best advice so far. find out if your buddy is even interested in progressing and if he even has goals. if he does, then you could lead him true. if not, no further action needed and time to work on finding a new buddy when you really want to rip things up and ski with the buddy on days when a relaxed pace is great. personally, i would never want to hold someone else up and would consider it an insult if someone was not doing what they wanted to do because i was dragging them behind. then again, there's also a time and a place when buddies come first and i want nothing more than to be skiing with a friend no matter where or how or what not. there's always the option of turning down a ski day with your buddy because you want to bag something serious. gotta be careful how you put that though, but it could be a motivator (but then again, you do not want to approach the situation in a manipulative manner).

any ways, i have a hard time relating because my philosophy is doing something the best or don't do it at all. and you never start off the best, but you gotta keep progressing in that direction until you are physically limited to do so. if that is not this guy's philosophy, it may be a hard sell.

 

[Charlie Schuessler]

Re: Lesson Advice

....I bought a book two summers ago "The All Mountain Skier". Lots of folks think reading how to ski is like walking how to fly but.... I loved this book. I've re-read sections of it repeatedly...

Excellent book!

Books make great gifts...the book listed above is not expensive (cheaper than a few drinks at the local pub)...pick one up...browse through it yourself...selectively highlight/underline some sections that interest you and permanently loan it to him...if he's interested and reads it, you'll notice it in his skiing and your skiing conversations...enough said...

 

[teachski]

Couple ideas:
1. Suggest to your friend(s)that you attend a weekend ski workshop, similar to the Eastern Tune-up offered by the people at epicski.com
2. Get a lesson for each of you. Give your friend a "ski lesson" for a gift...tell him you have one too. Tehn, plan a time that you can both take the lesson at the same time.
3. Leave him alone, if he is not slowing you down at all, who cares what he looks like...but stay in front of him so he can watch your style and maybe pick up on it.

BTW- What is this person's real problem...not just "he skis ugly", more specific.

 

[GloryHole]

Let me explain. I've got this buddy. Good athlete. Good guy. But he just skis ugly. After years and years of turning. Wouldn't know a carved edge from a carving knife. He keeps up and stays with us, but...and I'm sorry here as I sound judgemental...he just skis ugly. He needs a lesson. Or two. Or ten.....

I skied young. Then took a break to be a HS & D1 athlete in a sport where coaches didn't like you skiing, and where you trained in winter. When I got back into skiing, I was my buddy. I skied ugly. And someone told me to get a lesson, in a mean kind of way. And I did, and I got set right "tres fast" by a hottie instructor chick who could verbalize clearly what was wrong and how to fix it. Layman's terms. (Another thread could cover why I never married her....or even asked her out - but that's under the "idiot-fraidy cat-fear of failing" class I was always seeming to fail.... :dunce: ).

Anyways, I don't want to hurt this guy's feelings....but, sheesh, shouldn't he want to make good turns ????? Perhaps not. So maybe I'll just shut up and leave him be and worry about my own turns.

From the "pot calling the kettle black" department: if your avatar is you skiing, I wouldn't be criticizing any one else. :roll: :blink:

 

[Joshua B]

and I got set right "tres fast" by a hottie instructor chick who could verbalize clearly what was wrong and how to fix it. Layman's terms. (Another thread could cover why I never married her....or even asked her out - but that's under the "idiot-fraidy cat-fear of failing" class I was always seeming to fail.... :dunce: ).

This is the part of the post that interests me. It's a great feeling when you notice a woman who you know...if you could just spend some time with her...would completely rock your world and hopefully vice versa. And the thought of that scenario is so exciting because you know you'll never get another chance to at least talk to her and ask her out, but you're incredibly nervous at the same time. I bet most of us rarely take the first step and talk to her.

 

[smootharc]

and I got set right "tres fast" by a hottie instructor chick who could verbalize clearly what was wrong and how to fix it. Layman's terms. (Another thread could cover why I never married her....or even asked her out - but that's under the "idiot-fraidy cat-fear of failing" class I was always seeming to fail.... :dunce: ).

This is the part of the post that interests me. It's a great feeling when you notice a woman who you know...if you could just spend some time with her...would completely rock your world and hopefully vice versa. And the thought of that scenario is so exciting because you know you'll never get another chance to at least talk to her and ask her out, but you're incredibly nervous at the same time. I bet most of us rarely take the first step and talk to her.

If there's one thing I want to teach my boys it's just that. Better to crash and burn, than stay on the ground staring at the sky....