Driven: 2010 Subaru Legacy, the car Subaru needs...

[Philpug]

Stopped at the VW dealer today, Jetta is looking quite sweet.

 

[skijay]

They wouldn't need to switch to a transverse engine. As mentioned above they've sold FWD models in the past, I guy I went to high school with had an 80's subbie that was FWD with no transverse engine. All they need is a different tranny without the output to the rear, unless they have some weird configuration that I'm not aware of. There's other cars that are FWD and don't use a transverse engine, like my Passat.

I forgot about other cars that have AWD capabilities like VW with the 4Motion. Isn't easier to configure a car / truck with AWD using an engine that mounts lengthwise as opposed to transverse?

I think the way the Subbie engine is mounted and the tranny behind it it makes it "Symetrical AWD". So in reality a VW Passat w/ 4Motion would also be "Symetrical AWD"?

 

[deadheadskier]

Stopped at the VW dealer today, Jetta is looking quite sweet.

What's the list on a new TDI wagon? Is it worth the extra cash over a gas version?

 

[mondeo]

I forgot about other cars that have AWD capabilities like VW with the 4Motion. Isn't easier to configure a car / truck with AWD using an engine that mounts lengthwise as opposed to transverse?

I think the way the Subbie engine is mounted and the tranny behind it it makes it "Symetrical AWD". So in reality a VW Passat w/ 4Motion would also be "Symetrical AWD"?

No, what makes it Symmetrical AWD is the Subaru marketing department.

I love all the ads that claim their brand is the only to have "Whatever" AWD system. Yeah, that's because you trademarked the name, and every other company has their own "Something Else" AWD system. The actual mechanics of AWD can vary widely within a company, with some cars being closer to other brands than their siblings.

 

[campgottagopee]

I forgot about other cars that have AWD capabilities like VW with the 4Motion. Isn't easier to configure a car / truck with AWD using an engine that mounts lengthwise as opposed to transverse?

I think the way the Subbie engine is mounted and the tranny behind it it makes it "Symetrical AWD". So in reality a VW Passat w/ 4Motion would also be "Symetrical AWD"?

No, what makes it Symmetrical AWD is the Subaru marketing department.

I love all the ads that claim their brand is the only to have "Whatever" AWD system. Yeah, that's because you trademarked the name, and every other company has their own "Something Else" AWD system. The actual mechanics of AWD can vary widely within a company, with some cars being closer to other brands than their siblings.

Actually Subies AWD is Symetrical due to all the "shafts" being equal in length providing better balance and lower center ov gravity giving a person better control of said vehicle. One other "thing" is that Subie's AWD system is "real" (using transfer clutches, viscous couplers etc. etc.) instead of a fancy "slip-n-grip" using ABS braking systems.

 

[riverc0il]

Not sure what you mean....other than having more cargo volume the h-back has the exact same interior dimensions as the sedan.

That means the sedan is bigger because the hatch has no trunk but both the hatch and sedan have the same internal dimensions. The trunk of the sedan adds substantial volume to the car. There really is no cargo room in the hatch because the seats are right up against the hatch with only minimal space behind the seats, as with pretty much all hatches in that class of car.

 

[riverc0il]

By the way, I got passed by an 2010 Outback today. Didn't realize it was an Outback at first. Similar to the old Forester just without that high roof. I would call the new Outback a small SUV or crossover, no longer a wagon, IMO.

 

[campgottagopee]

By the way, I got passed by an 2010 Outback today. Didn't realize it was an Outback at first. Similar to the old Forester just without that high roof. I would call the new Outback a small SUV or crossover, no longer a wagon, IMO.

There actually classified as a "small truck" along with the Forester---something to do with less import tax being paid vs. a "car" classification......whatever they are they're being recieved pretty darn good.

 

[campgottagopee]

That means the sedan is bigger because the hatch has no trunk but both the hatch and sedan have the same internal dimensions. The trunk of the sedan adds substantial volume to the car. There really is no cargo room in the hatch because the seats are right up against the hatch with only minimal space behind the seats, as with pretty much all hatches in that class of car.

Still confused (easy for me)---the sedan has 11.3 cubic feet of cargo volume and the h-back has 19 and 44 with the rear seats folded flat.

 

[mondeo]

Actually Subies AWD is Symetrical due to all the "shafts" being equal in length providing better balance and lower center ov gravity giving a person better control of said vehicle. One other "thing" is that Subie's AWD system is "real" (using transfer clutches, viscous couplers etc. etc.) instead of a fancy "slip-n-grip" using ABS braking systems.

Longitudinally mounted engine = equal length half shafts, which is what you really care about for eliminating torque steer. So BMWs, Audi A4 and above, Lexi, Infinities, Mercedes, Caddies, all would qualify as symmetric. Lower Cg has nothing to do with how long the shafts are, just where their pickup points are. The slip-n-grip can be just as effective from a power transfer point of view, potentially even more effective. It's still real AWD, it just uses a non-locking center diff; besides, there aren't that many cars that use that system.

 

[riverc0il]

Still confused (easy for me)---the sedan has 11.3 cubic feet of cargo volume and the h-back has 19 and 44 with the rear seats folded flat.

Not really a fair comparison but I see what you are saying. I was talking about all seats up and filled with people. So from that perspective, I think you could fit more gear into the trunk of a sedan rather than the hatchback area behind the seats. Right?

 

[mondeo]

Not really a fair comparison but I see what you are saying. I was talking about all seats up and filled with people. So from that perspective, I think you could fit more gear into the trunk of a sedan rather than the hatchback area behind the seats. Right?

So there you're comparing 11.3 to 19. It's not as long a cargo area, but it's taller. Closer to a cube. For rectangular prisms, cubes have the most volume per surface area/linear dimensions.

The trouble for us is the cargo area isn't as long. Skis are long.

 

[campgottagopee]

Not really a fair comparison but I see what you are saying. I was talking about all seats up and filled with people. So from that perspective, I think you could fit more gear into the trunk of a sedan rather than the hatchback area behind the seats. Right?

Yes, those numbers are a "bit" misleading if one were to factor in "usable" storage space. Unless your loading building blocks or something the sedan will provide better seating for 4 people and more "usable" storage space even thought the h-back has more physical storage capacity. Personally I like the styling of the h-back better, don't know why other than it just fits my eye better.

 

[riverc0il]

Yes, I think "usable" storage space is a better way to look at it. I think square footage of floor space trumps square footage of "storage" space as it is pretty rare that you need to fully max out your vertical storage space.

 

[deadheadskier]

For rectangular prisms, cubes have the most volume per surface area/linear dimensions.

:???::???:


Should I know what that means and if so will I still like the car I bought today? :lol:

 

[deadheadskier]

 

[Philpug]

What's the list on a new TDI wagon? Is it worth the extra cash over a gas version?

It is about 25-26K. Not only is the mileage better than the gas version, but it has a ton of torque.

 

[Trekchick]

By the way, I got passed by an 2010 Outback today. Didn't realize it was an Outback at first. Similar to the old Forester just without that high roof. I would call the new Outback a small SUV or crossover, no longer a wagon, IMO.

This is why the traditional Subie lovers take issue with the new design.

Yes, I think "usable" storage space is a better way to look at it. I think square footage of floor space trumps square footage of "storage" space as it is pretty rare that you need to fully max out your vertical storage space.

This is what happened in the change from the 04 Jeep Grand Cherokee body style to the 05
Jeep Grand Cherokee body style. Bragging of more room but giving you less usable space.
This is why we no longer have a jeep.

It is about 25-26K. Not only is the mileage better than the gas version, but it has a ton of torque.

We had a chance to test drive the TDI back to back with the gas version(sedan not wagon).
the TDI is much more fun! :beer:

 

[ski220]

It is about 25-26K. Not only is the mileage better than the gas version, but it has a ton of torque.

What's the cost of diesel in your area? Around here diesel actually costs more then gas, which confounds me to no end since there is way less refining and additives. Should be less. I'm told it's volume.

What does diesel cost in rural N.E.?

One advantage of a diesel is that you can set up an alternative/bio fuel system. A friend of mine has a TDi set up that way. He gets free used fryer oil from the dorms where he teaches.

A TDi 4Motion could be sweet.

 

[Philpug]

What's the cost of diesel in your area? Around here diesel actually costs more then gas, which confounds me to no end since there is way less refining and additives. Should be less. I'm told it's volume.

What does diesel cost in rural N.E.?

One advantage of a diesel is that you can set up an alternative/bio fuel system. A friend of mine has a TDi set up that way. He gets free used fryer oil from the dorms where he teaches.

A TDi 4Motion could be sweet.

Diesel around here is floating between regular and premium costs.