Driven: 2010 Subaru Legacy, the car Subaru needs...

[deadheadskier]

You losers need to get with the times.

SUVs are dead, they are now MAV's

http://editorial.autos.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=435214

:lol:

 

[eastcoastpowderhound]

multi activity vehicle huh...what they can fly and swim too...or they can drive and copy/print/scan all at the same time? Call me old fashion but the only "activity" i need my vehicle to do is drive. Just what we need, more TLAs...yup, another three letter anagram

 

[wa-loaf]

This is interesting: http://www.businessinsider.com/indi...-to-take-market-share-from-gm-chrysler-2009-6

I might be interested in a small diesel truck for $15000 if it were reliable.

 

[wa-loaf]

More: http://www.dfwmahindra.com/

 

[Glenn]

This is interesting: http://www.businessinsider.com/indi...-to-take-market-share-from-gm-chrysler-2009-6

I might be interested in a small diesel truck for $15000 if it were reliable.

I'm a big fan of the diesel WK Grand Cherokee. I'm not sure if they're putting the diesel in the next generation Grand though.

I like diesels. You can get a massive amount of torque and great mileage. Furthermore, no batteries, regenerative breakes or tons of electronics controlling things.

 

[Geoff]

I'm a big fan of the diesel WK Grand Cherokee. I'm not sure if they're putting the diesel in the next generation Grand though.

I like diesels. You can get a massive amount of torque and great mileage. Furthermore, no batteries, regenerative breakes or tons of electronics controlling things.

There is 30% more energy in the fuel. Apples & apples comparing to a gasoline equivalent, you do indeed get just about 30% better fuel economy. The big issue is that most states tax the heck out of it on the theory that only road-damaging trucks use diesel. In Europe, they tax diesel less than gasoline to encourage people to use it since it improves fleet fuel economy dramatically.

For highway driving, a Pious hybrid is no better than any other car other than the tires they use. If you pull off those rock-hard tires and install snow tires to make it winter-capable, you'll see no difference in fuel economy compared to any other car with similar weight and aerodynamics for winter driving going skiing.

For city driving, I think hybrids are great. I've been in Prius taxi cabs and that's a perfect application. I don't live in the city.

 

[Glenn]

I'm with you on the city thing for hybrids; that's where they make sense. But until the cost of those come down (IMHO), it's still too much money for the benefit they provide in gasoline savings.

Agreed...diesel has to come down in price. Also, states like NY (and I think CA?) should start allowing them to be sold again. The mishmash of laws we have in this country is stupifying. "We want better mileage...but you can't drive this car that does!" Ugh. It's mind numbing.

And to be fair, the price of diesel vehicles coming down wouldn't hurt either. I'm thinking as they become more popular, their prices will regulate. Well, not more popular...as manufacturing increases, the prices will stabilize.

 

[Marc]

I'm with you on the city thing for hybrids; that's where they make sense. But until the cost of those come down (IMHO), it's still too much money for the benefit they provide in gasoline savings.

Agreed...diesel has to come down in price. Also, states like NY (and I think CA?) should start allowing them to be sold again. The mishmash of laws we have in this country is stupifying. "We want better mileage...but you can't drive this car that does!" Ugh. It's mind numbing.

And to be fair, the price of diesel vehicles coming down wouldn't hurt either. I'm thinking as they become more popular, their prices will regulate. Well, not more popular...as manufacturing increases, the prices will stabilize.

Truly amazing how often the law of unintended consequences rears its ugly head, isn't it?

 

[Geoff]

Agreed...diesel has to come down in price. Also, states like NY (and I think CA?) should start allowing them to be sold again. The mishmash of laws we have in this country is stupifying. "We want better mileage...but you can't drive this car that does!" Ugh. It's mind numbing.

And to be fair, the price of diesel vehicles coming down wouldn't hurt either. I'm thinking as they become more popular, their prices will regulate. Well, not more popular...as manufacturing increases, the prices will stabilize.

Before low sulfur fuel and cleaner diesel engines that burn the low sulfur fuel became available, you also couldn't buy them in Vermont, Maine, or Massachusetts since they all adopted the California standard. Along with NY, I think those were the 5 states where you couldn't buy diesel passenger cars. You could always play the "used car" loophole game but you couldn't buy a new one in those states.

The VW Jetta TDI and all the Mercedes diesels meet California standards. Audi will be using that 2.0L TDI engine in the A3. The Cummins engine used in big pickups meets the standard. GM has a Duramax that meets the standard. I think Ford has an engine now.

Diesel engines are always going to cost more than an equivalent gasoline engine. They almost always have a turbocharger. They're much higher compression so they need to be built beefier. To make them pass emissions, they need fancy particulate traps and multi-stage catalytic converters that clean up carbon monoxide, nitrogen oxides, and sulfur. The price can only come down so much. VW and Mercedes have been building small diesels for passenger cars for decades. The VW engine is in such demand in Europe that it's delayed wide deployment in the US. If you want a Jetta TDI, you have to get on a waiting list for it.

 

[riverc0il]

Just checked out the 2010 Outback on Sub's page and the cosmetic changes to the Outback look much more tolerable compared to the Legacy. Amazing that they increased the interior space so much while decreasing the wagon's length! I never thought the Legacy was a very long wagon to begin with. They did so by making the car wider and (unfortunately) taller. Bigger is still better... I don't get that... especially when they already over bigger in the Forester (as there definitely are folks that benefit from a taller vehicle). With so many Outbacks sporting roof racks, making the vehicle taller seems impractical.

 

[Philpug]

I got a survey from Subaru regarding an upcoming Outback commercial. It is the Outback going reverse through the car wash and coming out dirty. The tag line is something like "The Same Outback you love, only bigger". I had a series of questions about the commercial. The jist of my replies were... "Bigger isn't always better" and "It has become more of a car and less of a Subaru"

 

[campgottagopee]

2010 Legacy and Outbacks in stock now--- i can dig it

 

[Philpug]

2010 Legacy and Outbacks in stock now--- i can dig it

Have you received a manual yet? MT says that the stick is as bad as ever.

 

[campgottagopee]

Have you received a manual yet? MT says that the stick is as bad as ever.

Not yet, in-bound. The CVT w/ padel shifters is pretty cool tho and w/ 31 MPG it's gonna be a hit. And me being 6'4", 250lbs with MUCHO room in either car is even better. This generation is the first I can actually sit in the backseat with some level of comfort. Subie has done an incredible job.

 

[Geoff]

Not yet, in-bound. The CVT w/ padel shifters is pretty cool tho and w/ 31 MPG it's gonna be a hit. And me being 6'4", 250lbs with MUCHO room in either car is even better. This generation is the first I can actually sit in the backseat with some level of comfort. Subie has done an incredible job.

How do you do paddle shifters with a CVT? Does it just simulate having actual gears in the transmission?

 

[campgottagopee]

How do you do paddle shifters with a CVT? Does it just simulate having actual gears in the transmission?

Feels like it---need an eggineer to chime in----I just run a dealership, that crap is waaaaayyyy over my head ;-)

 

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

2010 Legacy and Outbacks in stock now--- i can dig it

someone REALLY likes the outback: http://www.autoblog.com/2009/07/29/first-drive-2010-subaru-outback-has-character-for-everyone/

i agree....it looks good. nicer than the forester, at least in pictures.

the retractable crossbars of the roof rack seems like a great idea.

 

[Philpug]

The new Outback is damn big compared to Outbacks or the past. The previous Outbacks were evolutionary, this one is revolutionary, I am not sure it is a good thing, at least not for me.

 

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

The new Outback is damn big compared to Outbacks or the past. The previous Outbacks were evolutionary, this one is revolutionary, I am not sure it is a good thing, at least not for me.

take another look at the size....i don't see what in the changes would be a problem for you, unless your garage door is so low that the extra 2.3 inches of height would pose a problem.....otherwise, it's all win-win, no?



"Due to a 2.8-in.-longer wheelbase, along with 2.3 in. more height and 2.0 in. more width, Subaru increased passenger volume by 8.4 cu. ft. Most notably, rear-seat leg room is up by almost 4 in. and front-seat hip room by 3.5 in., while there's an extra 5.9 cu. ft. of cargo capacity with the rear seats folded — this last item largely due to the adoption of a new double-wishbone rear suspension. Yet, because Subaru shortened the car's front and rear overhangs, the car's total length is almost 1 in. less than before."

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=10&article_id=8247

 

[Philpug]

take another look at the size....i don't see what in the changes would be a problem for you, unless your garage door is so low that the extra 2.3 inches of height would pose a problem.....otherwise, it's all win-win, no?



"Due to a 2.8-in.-longer wheelbase, along with 2.3 in. more height and 2.0 in. more width, Subaru increased passenger volume by 8.4 cu. ft. Most notably, rear-seat leg room is up by almost 4 in. and front-seat hip room by 3.5 in., while there's an extra 5.9 cu. ft. of cargo capacity with the rear seats folded — this last item largely due to the adoption of a new double-wishbone rear suspension. Yet, because Subaru shortened the car's front and rear overhangs, the car's total length is almost 1 in. less than before."

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=10&article_id=8247

I am well aware of the differences in dimensions. The car is much bigger in width and height, both dimensions here translate to a much different driving experience, along with the new steering set up. Bigger is not always better and that translates to this car. As I mentioned, this will be the most successful OB ever but Subaru won't be seeing me in for one. I just don't want a vehicle this big.