End of paper trail maps?

[raisingarizona]

Chang happens and it’s definitely human to resist it.

if it’s readily available using your phone then saving the resources it takes to print paper maps is probably a good thing imo.

 

[abc]

Chang happens and it’s definitely human to resist it.

if it’s readily available using your phone then saving the resources it takes to print paper maps is probably a good thing imo.

I'm not so sure about the "definitely human to resist change" part.

If it works well, people will definitely change!

The problem is phone is a substandard replacement of trail map. When I'm at a mountain I don't know, I definitely prefer to have a map instead of constantly fiddling with my phone. It's just here in the northeast, most mountains aren't big enough for me to need a trail map. So I do ok by looking at the big one near the top of the lifts.

 

[da-bum]

The chairs I’ve been on with the bar maps have used plastic for the map and therefore are very light. I don’t know what the problem was

Montgomery Burns begs to differ. Anyway, who rides with the bars down?

 

[BenedictGomez]

Chang happens and it’s definitely human to resist it.

if it’s readily available using your phone then saving the resources it takes to print paper maps is probably a good thing imo.

As mentioned, trail maps on a phone while skiing pretty much blows, regardless of how stellar your phone is.

 

[BenedictGomez]

who rides with the bars down?

Smart people.

 

[Shredmonkey254]

I have printed trail maps for ski areas in the northeast. Vail owns 37 resorts. A place the size of Stowe will spend close to $10,000 per year on trail maps. Multiply that times 37 and Vail Resorts just saved $370,000.
Their larger western resorts surely go thru more trail maps than Stowe. I bet they are saving half a million dollars by not printing trail maps this year.

 

[abc]

I do think paper trail map is a big waste item.

Paper gets wet and crumbles. It’s just not the best media for snowy activity. But I’m not sure what the solution should be. Perhaps a vending machine selling trail maps printed on waterproof tearproof paper for a couple dollars?

 

[deadheadskier]

I do think paper trail map is a big waste item.

Paper gets wet and crumbles. It’s just not the best media for snowy activity. But I’m not sure what the solution should be. Perhaps a vending machine selling trail maps printed on waterproof tearproof paper for a couple dollars?

That's basically what Nav Charts are like for boating and I certainly would buy something more durable for what is essentially going to be a a poster for my kids bedroom.

But navigation charts cost more like $25. Worth it if it saves you from wrecking a five figure out drive on a rock

 

[raisingarizona]

I'm not so sure about the "definitely human to resist change" part.

If it works well, people will definitely change!

The problem is phone is a substandard replacement of trail map. When I'm at a mountain I don't know, I definitely prefer to have a map instead of constantly fiddling with my phone. It's just here in the northeast, most mountains aren't big enough for me to need a trail map. So I do ok by looking at the big one near the top of the lifts.

I’m very sure of it.

Humans are just like a snowpack. They both, generally don’t deal well with rapid change and need time to adjust to it.

I hardly ever use paper trail maps. Maybe I’ll look over one during lunch my first day somewhere but after that I can use the map boards near lifts or look at my phone the day before. It’s not a big deal.

More often than not I’m following a local friend around anyways. IMO that’s the best really. It’s great to just go and turn your brain off on the where and what part.

 

[BenedictGomez]

I do think paper trail map is a big waste item.

Paper gets wet and crumbles. It’s just not the best media for snowy activity.

Depends on the paper. The better trail maps have a gloss, almost plasticy/paperly blend feel that are somewhat resistant to water. The poorest trail maps of low-quality, cheap paper, that "crumbles" after a while as you say. Though even those crappy maps it takes most of the day before they start to fall apart on me (if they ever do).

That said, the endgame of paper trail maps is simple. It will start with faux-environmentalism as an excuse for saving money. Then a virtue-signaling & "map shaming" campaign will piggy-back onto that, and it will be game over.

 

[Nick]

It's so much easier using a physical map than pulling out a cell phone and looking at the little screen, dealing with the touch sensitivity with gloves, and all that.

this.

 

[Not Sure]

A friend of mine has a glass top coffee table that he likes to display trail maps on . Kinda cool to have some memorabilia to look back on places you've been. I used to save lift tickets but decided to toss them when I was in a cleanout mode one day . Looking back I wish I would have kept them .

 

[Cornhead]

Along the same lines, glad I started skiing in VT pre GPS/smartphones. The visitor center had great free road maps of VT. It was fun to pour over them and plot out where to go.

It seems with progress something is always lost. When I stop by my brother's house after work he always watches the local and national news starting at 6. He has, well did have until last week, stolen in a break in, only thing taken, 21" samsung smart tv circa 2010, worth what, $20. It was 10" away from a $5,000 Macintosh amp. Anyway, from turning on the TV, turning on the app, actually getting picture and sound, sound usually came on first, took a good 2-3 minutes. I'd say, "remember when you used to just turn on your tv and watch tv?" Sadly I'm old enough to remember when you had to wait for the tubes to warm up. I guess what goes around, comes around. I do miss channel surfing. It's pretty hard to do when you have to wait for each channel to load.

 

[Smellytele]

I have gotten a few lens wipe clothes that are actual trail maps. Those are good as you can just crunch them up and put them in your pocket. No folding required. Got them free in the bar après ski.

 

[Vaughn]

I have printed trail maps for ski areas in the northeast. Vail owns 37 resorts. A place the size of Stowe will spend close to $10,000 per year on trail maps. Multiply that times 37 and Vail Resorts just saved $370,000.
Their larger western resorts surely go thru more trail maps than Stowe. I bet they are saving half a million dollars by not printing trail maps this year.

Given those numbers, mountains should put more trail maps up on the mountains at major junctions. Spend $4000 on 4 signs that will last many seasons and you'll solve most people's needs for maps, especially if they are sized big enough to read at distance.

 

[eatskisleep]

I have contacted the River about replacing some of their large sign maps. They are getting sun faded, and of course, people use their poles to point out certain spots on the maps, further degrading them. Maybe next Summer, they might see their way to do so. Signage is not such a big deal at the river, sadly. Last year when they put in the T-bar, they still had the sign for the trail it dislodged. when I pointed it out to patrol, one of them went over and ripped it off the tree.

They also have some electronic signs up that are supposed to show which lifts are running. Used to have one at the bottom near lift 2, at the top of the Chondi near the North peak lodge and near the waffle shop at Barker. I think it reflects poorly on them that they would leave an electronic sign in a non working configuration. Either get it working or remove it. Don't just leave it derelict on site.

Where did they put in a t-bar? I haven’t been to SR In a few seasons.

 

[thetrailboss]

Where did they put in a t-bar? I haven’t been to SR In a few seasons.

Right under the Locke Mountain Triple.

 

[thetrailboss]

So back to the original post.

So far I have only heard of ONE Vail Resort (Sunapee) that did not have maps on one outing. Perhaps they were en route. I don't think we can conclude that all of the sudden every Vail resort is just getting rid of printed trail maps.

 

[Slidebrook87]

I typically don’t use a paper map while I’m skiing, but I love to keep a collection of them going and to break them out during lunch or after a day of skiing. There’s something about a physical map that a pdf map on a phone just can’t replicate. I do like interactive trail maps like Killington’s where you can get a visual on what is and isn’t open. It’s much easier to have a visual than to just go off of the listed trail status.

 

[jaytrem]

Last year, pre-covid, I was unable to find a map at Copper. Looked pretty good butI don't think I asked anybody for one. Almost all their lift had the safty bar maps. I suspect this will be more common going forward.